Intergas commissioning

[buckley plumb]

Had a guy call me on Saturday saying he had fitted his own intergas boiler and would I check and register it and get him the extended warranty. He was not happy when I told him no and that he should not have fitted his own boiler.

Leo it wasn't you was it

 

[lame plumber]

All the problems I come across are by and large caused by diy or cowboy builders, if the cant purchase the gear they cant do the harm, as for not being able to do the elctrics etc, I would be happy to do the requisite training if required or as I normally do on big jobs, employ a sparky. One ladies opinion isnt always correct after all anyone can apply stats to suit their own needs.

 

[Ray Stafford]

All the problems I come across are by and large caused by diy or cowboy builders, if the cant purchase the gear they cant do the harm, as for not being able to do the elctrics etc, I would be happy to do the requisite training if required or as I normally do on big jobs, employ a sparky. One ladirs opinion isnt always correct after all anyone can apply stats to suit their own needs.

Jon, I'm sorry, but your utter ignorance of this subject is only matched by your lack of desire to correct it.

Of course this lady's opinion isn't guaranteed to be correct. She has only investigated in detail every single UK death from CO and gas explosion for the last 20 years. Every single one - including attending inquests, counselling the bereaved and recording the statistics. I am sure that your opinion is supported by equally thorough research? No? Well there's a surprise!

And you continue to make the most naive assumption of all. If the untrained DIY enthusiast is denied access to the proper materials, then off course he will immediately see the error if his ways, and retain the services of a qualified engineer. There is absolutely no chance that he will try to use garden hose in place of a cooker hose, or source 2nd hand parts via Ebay, to the still greater risk of his children, tenants and neighbours.

Please bear in mind that I run a trade only business, and it would be substantially to my business advantage if this sort of policy would help, but not only does it divert resources from more useful campaigns, but on its own, it would probably lead to more, not less deaths.

So can we please stop repeating this complete ********, and actually research the effing situation?

<sorry mods - just realised my last sentence set of the profanity filter>

 

[jtsplumbing]

So commenting on what you are saying then Ray, you only sell to the trade ! and you seam to make a living from it, But if business fell off would you be happy selling gas related products to Mr average knowing what could happen, and would it bother you ?

 

[lame plumber]

we can all agree and disagree as much as we like. But taken in its simplest form, reducing access to the means of diy repairs etc will help reduce issues. I never said it would stop it all together, but the one thing your lady doesnt account for that happens all the time is that the professionals out there are regularly coming across dangerous situations, resolving them and getting on with our daily toil. Your ladies stats have no way of taking that into account in any means or form hence why what you are spouting on about is also utter tripe. Please dont assume we are naive, we are the ones at the coalface preventing more deaths on a regular basis, my last one being a new customer who mentioned she wasnt feeling to good in the afternoons recently, turns out the builder who installed her fire didnt see the need to flue iaw mfis and she was getting co poisoning on a daily basis, proved with an air sample taked in here lounge. But the stupid thing was, she wouldnt let me know his name so the riddor process couldnt even be started as there was no one to chase. So I dont say you can eliminate the issues, but you can go a long way towards preventing them taken in its simplest form. After all, why else did government ban certain firearms if they didnt think it would have an effect on the number of deaths caused by illegal ones? For once Ray you may not be correct after all

 

[Ray Stafford]

So commenting on what you are saying then Ray, you only sell to the trade ! and you seam to make a living from it, But if business fell off would you be happy selling gas related products to Mr average knowing what could happen, and would it bother you ?

Very many of our sales are not to GSR engineers JTS. Housing associations, other merchants, MOD, government depts etc who represent no risk. Should the ethical issue ever arise, i would base my decision on actual evidence, not guesswork.

 

[SimonG]

Restricting the sale of gas related items, in my opinion, may actually cause more issues. The muppets will just clash together non gas compliant materials to do the job instead. Just my tuppence.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Very many of our sales are not to GSR engineers JTS. Housing associations, other merchants, MOD, government depts etc who represent no risk. Should the ethical issue ever arise, i would base my decision on actual evidence, not guesswork.

I understand that, but the people you mention I am sure ! will not be letting Tenants, government departments or people In the MOD fit there own gas products

 

[lame plumber]

Very many of our sales are not to GSR engineers JTS. Housing associations, other merchants, MOD, government depts etc who represent no risk. Should the ethical issue ever arise, i would base my decision on actual evidence, not guesswork.

I feel that the problem here is that they are using the wrong evidence. If the HSE were to do their job and start to chase down riddors and reports from the coal face rigorously, then perhaps the evidence produced would give them a far bigger and better sample from which to make some proper and effective actions on what is needed to make the whole industry safer. I have never had any feedback from GSR or HSE on any riddors I have raised over my time, and the one time buiding regs and hse did look at a problem I raised, because the owner didnt have any problems with the builder, they walked away!!

 

[jtsplumbing]

I feel that the problem here is that they are using the wrong evidence. If the HSE were to do their job and start to chase down riddors and reports from the coal face rigorously, then perhaps the evidence produced would give them a far bigger and better sample from which to make some proper and effective actions on what is needed to make the whole industry safer. I have never had any feedback from GSR or HSE on any riddors I have raised over my time, and the one time buiding regs and hse did look at a problem I raised, because the owner didnt have any problems with the builder, they walked away!!

I to have had instances like this, going to all the trouble of doing the paper work, only to find that nothing is done, so it gets to the point of why bother, it becomes a pointless exercise

 

[hammers4spanner]

The HSE/GSR need to step up in my opinion start chasing rogue traders however that costs money and quite often than not they won't chase due to cost , a friend of mine deals with HSE on reg basis and can't be bothered unless its asbestos as its traceable.

Insurance companies can go a long way to stopping a lot of rogue trading

 

[chris watkins]

Jon, I'm sorry, but your utter ignorance of this subject is only matched by your lack of desire to correct it.

Of course this lady's opinion isn't guaranteed to be correct. She has only investigated in detail every single UK death from CO and gas explosion for the last 20 years. Every single one - including attending inquests, counselling the bereaved and recording the statistics. I am sure that your opinion is supported by equally thorough research? No? Well there's a surprise!

And you continue to make the most naive assumption of all. If the untrained DIY enthusiast is denied access to the proper materials, then off course he will immediately see the error if his ways, and retain the services of a qualified engineer. There is absolutely no chance that he will try to use garden hose in place of a cooker hose, or source 2nd hand parts via Ebay, to the still greater risk of his children, tenants and neighbours.

Please bear in mind that I run a trade only business, and it would be substantially to my business advantage if this sort of policy would help, but not only does it divert resources from more useful campaigns, but on its own, it would probably lead to more, not less deaths.

So can we please stop repeating this complete ********, and actually research the effing situation?

<sorry mods - just realised my last sentence set of the profanity filter>

So is this how as a society we should be making decisions then, see how many die or gets poisoned & use those to determine our actions?

Some in this post have claimed that GasSafe doesn't work, loads & loads of cases of illegal gas work being undertaken, is this situation helped by the fact that joe public see all that they need freely on sale in there local shed or builders merchant, what message does this send?

We don't need to go as far as other countries, like the limits on who can trade but it might help if there were some clearly defined boundaries that once crossed it was clear that the public were in the wrong.

What we have at the moment across the whole of the industry is a free for all which is serving nobody.

 

[buckley plumb]

From memory my local merchants about 3 Years ago if they sold a boiler the purchaser had to fill in a sheet so the boiler was traceable but this didn't last long and was never enforced. I see no problem with boilers being sold to the public as most do get a gsre to fit them. The policeing should be that the boiler can't be registered and insurance companies should insist on proof before issuing house insurance.

 

[hammers4spanner]

From memory my local merchants about 3 Years ago if they sold a boiler the purchaser had to fill in a sheet so the boiler was traceable but this didn't last long and was never enforced. I see no problem with boilers being sold to the public as most do get a gsre to fit them. The policeing should be that the boiler can't be registered and insurance companies should insist on proof before issuing house insurance.

Well thats just it boilers are registered on a data base so no reg no house insurance.

 

[Dotty]

I keep coming back to an idea of Ray's that would quash a shed load of arguments.

Boiler's cannot be commissioned or reset after case removal (or any other type of lockout that could prove hazardous if not checked prior to resetting), without insertion of a gsr chip and pin card.

The tech is there, just needs incorporating.

The boiler then holds a permanent record of who's done what and when. Can also be used to combat the handful of rogue custards out there.

 

[kris]

Its a good idea crop then the price of the boiler shoots up to incorparate the tech which will prob be met with mix reviews from the buyers ,