Help needed with a cream coloured nightmare

[WaterTight]

As mentioned previous thread, I broke an unusual slab style basin in a cream colour. Insurance won't pay out. Photos below.

As these are no longer available a section of cream worktop and a cream semi recessed basin (as closely colour matched as possible) seems to be Plan A.

I'm not a bathroom fitter and have zero experience with stuff like worktops and colour matching stuff. It's doing my head in trying to work out how to proceed.

There is a company called National Discontinued Bathrooms (linked to by another member here) who have sent me a letter with 3 plastic coloured samples they claim to be able to have a new basin "re-fired" in. I don't know what this involves? Anyone had any experience of this? This would be nearly £500 delivered. They have a similar name to a company not far from them with terrible reviews so I don't know if I should look elsewhere anyway. The basin is an Ideal Standard studio 56cm semi-countertop basin.

The size sounds about right but there is also the cut out shape of the top basin fascia to consider and I don't know if I can be sure if the new basin will cover the cut out (is there enough info in the spec here to work this out? http://www.idealspec.co.uk/uploads/...semicountertopwashbasin56cm1taphole_421_1.pdf)


As for cream work tops I don't where to begin. I'm guessing that because I need one with two finished ends of a specific length it needs to be from a company that offers a made to measure service? Because the cut end can't be hidden against the tiled wall.

I'm worried that if I end up with something that is a similar-ish but still quite different colour to surrounding tiles and units and on top of this a similar-ish but different-to-some-measure-again colour to the re-fired basin it will create a clash that might look worse than if it had just been replaced with white. Which they don't want.

I notice the toilet seat is white. And the grout. Sealant, skirting, door, maybe WC pan? But I guess a white basin and worktop would look horrendous?

I've lost the plot and I haven't even started.

How would you much more experienced and knowledgable (and resourceful) guys proceed if this was your headache to sort?

Would appreciate any advice. Because currently I'm starting to think telling them to replace the whole bathroom and I'll get a second job or a loan for a year to pay for it might be easier than this rubbish. Or they could knock down the house and rebuild the whole thing in cream. Cream from top to bottom. Each cream surface creamier than the last. I've started to hate the word cream with a passion. It flies through my head like a demented mantra. I have nightmares about cream worktops. This is my life now.

Help

 

[Scott_D]

What about the company's that do invisible repairs?
I think white would look ok, its hardly a new bathroom

 

[Best]

White recessed basin and a nice quality bit of worktop of the customers choice is what I would suggest to the customer. Offer to do a nice job on it all.
Some local kitchen company might do the work for you at reasonable cost and you just do the plumbing up to new basin?

 

[WaterTight]

Glad to hear two votes for white not being some totally unacceptable suggestion.

Will see what I can achieve down the colour match route (as i've started down the path) but certainly aren't many options for that route that I've found so far and I suspect I'll end up with mis-matches/clashes.

Getting a local kitchen company to do all but piping up actually a pretty good idea there Best (and good ideas is what i'm short of) as I think what's stressing me most is not actually having confidence about how to get something looking good on my own

 

[Chalked]

What about repacking the lot?
Will be other stuff like this.
Would tidy the room up too.
https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/tavistock-match-1000mm-furniture-run-gloss-white-left-or-right-hand-option?campaign=googlebase&PS2PVV1=9343&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInKHSxeb72QIVZr7tCh3dngfZEAQYBiABEgJ_QvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Chalked]

How wide is it?
This might fit?
1m basin semi countertop handed

 

[Phil]

Twyfords Entice Semi Recessed Basin Soft Cream 550mm 2 Tap Hole | eBay

Surely this is okay?
Better than spending a monkey on a basin...If they say "have you got anything a slightly creamier cream ?" when you show it to them, then smash it over their heads!

 

[WaterTight]

Replacing the whole lot is going to be in the Plan B section for now I reckon.

Unless you guys think a slightly different cream would look worse than the whole lot/some of what's there changing to white? I'm guess a bright white would stick out more but I don't know. To my eye it looks like there are different creams in there anyway, like comparing the fascia and the remains of the basin. But could be trick of light.

Thanks for eBay link Phil, I'm going round with a few colour samples Thurs, I can try and float the idea of two taps ..

 

[Phil]

How much force did you use to snap that thing?

 

[oz-plumber]

My question.
Why won't insurance pay?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

My question.
Why won't insurance pay?

Because he was working on the toilet i would be binning then off

 

[Scott_D]

Have you asked them what they want before you go too far?
They may not be happy what ever you do.
They may want the sink replaced and compensation.

 

[Phil]

And the shirt off his back!

 

[Old Account]

Have you asked them what they want before you go too far?
They may not be happy what ever you do.
They may want the sink replaced and compensation.

Just had similar job but exactly the customer you just described. Went out to change the whole lot inside a closed coupled toilet. I also had to remove the toilet to get to the bath mixer and changed that over. Once, I changed that I changed the pan connector, took the cistern of the toilet and changed all parts as she wanted me to. Fitted the cistern back onto the toilet and put that back as it was with pipe clips used as washers for the cistern. There apwere no fixings for the toilet installed at all so I used silicone as it didn’t have anything like this. So I thought, applying this will sort within 2h stability and it looks a lot better. So I got paid went to the next job. 15 min later she’s called me and said the toilet is com0letely loose and it looks messy. I was like yeah it looks messy because I just left a nice line of silicone at the base to give you stability to the toilet once it’s dry. I alss mentioned that the toilet didn’t have any fixings and you did not supply them to me to fix them so I put the toilet back as it was. She started to complain more about the cistern being not straight which made me laugh though. She also said there is a gap between the wall and the cistern, and I said yes because youre previous installers installed the toilet like this and the toilet can’t go further back to the wall due to the waste going into the floor. She was talking about (1cm). However, I went back tried sorting out made it look better but she wasn’t still happy and I literally snapped. I went out got got her the money back in full didn’t even charge her for the change of the tap as my honour wouldn’t let me. I thought I was better than this. She was just looking for issues to get th8ngs apdone for free. Before I receive a bad review I left the money and bit onto the bullet and left her with the full amount of money and told her to get another qualified engineer who could please her.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

She's right tho ron you need to fix the toilet to the floor you can't use use mastic

 

[Old Account]

She's right tho ron you need to fix the toilet to the floor you can't use use mastic

Disagree tho. Have t got supplied what I supposed to install. I ask her kindly if I could supply that all but she didn’t me to so how is that my fault. She just being difficult and just wanting all for free.

To be frank I don’t give a .. what she wants and what she can afford .... I want also a mansion but can only afford a 3 bedroom property ... if Shen doesn’t to pay for the right materials or supplying it all in the first place she got more than she deserved.

She just being difficult hang on the toilet and moved it on purpose back and forth like a maniac just to Sod me off. She also wanted me to tighten the bloody cisterns screws as tight as possible so I crack the cistern. These are designed to keep the cistern in place and not solid ... whatever her or anyone’s opinion is ... I have been there and faced again a rough customer.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Still doesn't matter

If it's not supplied fine tell her and three options

One you go and get the part
Two she goes and gets it
Three you don't install the toilet

And there meant to be tight, tighten enough so you can't tighten them by hand any more, also gives you somewhere to lever the cistern off

 

[Best]

I admit I do rely on a bead of silicone to keep a lot of toilet pans from moving on tiled floors.
But both surfaces must be clean.
The problem with not also using proper fixings for the pans to fix them to the floor, is the customer can later properly claim the installer was to blame should even an earthquake dislodge it.
The cisterns I prefer to use 1/2” tap washers with brass screws (or stainless steel) and tighten them just until the rubber tap washers can’t move

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I admit I do rely on a bead of silicone to keep a lot of toilet pans from moving on tiled floors.
But both surfaces must be clean.
The problem with not also using proper fixings for the pans to fix them to the floor, is the customer can later properly claim the installer was to blame should even an earthquake dislodge it.
The cisterns I prefer to use 1/2” tap washers with brass screws (or stainless steel) and tighten them just until the rubber tap washers can’t move

really you just silicon the outside and hope for the best it doesnt move?

 

[Old Account]

really you just silicon the outside and hope for the best it doesnt move?

It’s not applied only on the outside, you could easily put 3 screwdrivers down below the toilet on each site one and at the front one, put silicon down and pull the screwsdrivers away. So now the toilet sits on the silicone and you just use a former and remove the silicone with a nice neat line.

I don’t think @Best meant he uses just silicone, I think he meant sometimes some of the toilets it’s difficult to fix them onto the floor it would help to keep the toilet in place.

 

[Best]

really you just silicon the outside and hope for the best it doesnt move?

As Ron (Matchless) said, I meant I do use pan screws/brackets fixings if possible, but a bead of clear silicone will stop any movement in pan. Also it will fill in any irregularities the tiles or pan have, so making sure pan has full contact with floor.
I have fitted some of the large base modern pans, solely relying on silicone to hold them in place. But they definitely will never move on tiles if pan remains untouched until silicone cures.
I no longer bed the pans on a pile of silicone. It is too strong and wasteful and not easy to do.
A bead put around the already installed pan and then tooled off is plenty as the base of pans always has a stepped edge.
That way you can remove the pan hopefully in the future using a flat blade .

 

[Scott_D]

If you don't know what's below the pan, pipes, cables underfloor heating it can risky using good fixings. Some times a brown plug or wood screw the depth of the floorboard and silicon around the outside has to do

 

[Best]

If you don't know what's below the pan, pipes, cables underfloor heating it can risky using good fixings. Some times a brown plug or wood screw the depth of the floorboard and silicon around the outside has to do

That’s exactly what I do.
The fixing screws that come with some pan bracket kits must be 3 inch long and seem a bit silly.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

As Ron (Matchless) said, I meant I do use pan screws/brackets fixings if possible, but a bead of clear silicone will stop any movement in pan. Also it will fill in any irregularities the tiles or pan have, so making sure pan has full contact with floor.
I have fitted some of the large base modern pans, solely relying on silicone to hold them in place. But they definitely will never move on tiles if pan remains untouched until silicone cures.
I no longer bed the pans on a pile of silicone. It is too strong and wasteful and not easy to do.
A bead put around the already installed pan and then tooled off is plenty as the base of pans always has a stepped edge.
That way you can remove the pan hopefully in the future using a flat blade .

so how do you cope when its the only bathroom and they want to use the pan in an hour

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That’s exactly what I do.
The fixing screws that come with some pan bracket kits must be 3 inch long and seem a bit silly.

i use 41/2 as ive had 3" come up / pull out after time

 

[Best]

so how do you cope when its the only bathroom and they want to use the pan in an hour

I tell the customers to go elsewhere.
Truthfully, the new toilets that are in unoccupied properties, or where the home has other toilets, then no bother as I make sure it is left unused for hopefully a day at least.
On toilets that will be used shortly, I just advise the customer to take great care with it.
Frankly, the large base pans are very stable and I only would be concerned if a heavyweight person was to sit on it.
There is the concern that cleaning chemicals might attack the silicone eventually, but all seem good

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Naaa wouldn't approve it my end always screw them down

 

[Old Account]

Naaa wouldn't approve it my end always screw them down

But you are not always able to screw down. How do you know there aren’t any pipes, wires and god knows what down below?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

But you are not always able to screw down. How do you know there aren’t any pipes, wires and god knows what down below?

Shouldn't be any pipes below or in the screed that close any way

 

[Best]

Naaa wouldn't approve it my end always screw them down

I still do screw them down Shaun, although often with short screws. Not really going to need the screw fixings anyway as they are almost cosmetic due to not being strong enough if just the usual 2 fixing at rear sides of pan. If the pan can't get slight movement, then no risk of the screw fixings gradually working loose. That's where the silicone IMO helps greatly. Always clear silicone, - white is just too obvious.
Am sure not all tiles are suitable for silicone though.

 

[Old Account]

Shouldn't be any pipes below or in the screed that close any way

Shouldn’t sounds good though ... you should know better than me in England it’s not possible due to millions of different installers.

You talk from the ideal world of plumbing but coming back to the reality ... it’s unfortunately different and people install pipes you would even think off doing it

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Shouldn’t sounds good though . you should know better than me in England it’s not possible due to millions of different installers.

You talk from the ideal world of plumbing but coming back to the reality . it’s unfortunately different and people install pipes you would even think off doing it

It's building regs

 

[WaterTight]

Once a decent amount of silicone has set on a decent size pan on a smooth level tiled floor you wouldn't be able to kick it over with a running start.

I always use screws if I can, plastic wedges in any gaps if that's causing a problem, add a bit of silicone for belt and braces if its proving a pain. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Shaun is like Mr Best Practice and I very much respect that but I suspect if every plumber in the country suddenly had to do everything 100% by the book every time or they'd drop dead, there'd be about 5 left working in the country by Monday. Shaun sounds like he'd be one of them.

 

[Stigster]

Shouldn't be any pipes below or in the screed that close any way[/Q]

"Shouldn't" doesn't mean aren't!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So what do you do on timber floor either old t and g or chip

Don't say mastic