Heating controls for church

[Jennie]

Hi all, I've got a cash-strapped church hall with a 2-year old Vaillant boiler. A timeclock was fitted by the original installer to the front of the boiler, but no room stat. I've advised them this isn't up to the building regs, and that it's not great for the boiler to have so much hot water sitting for so long in it. It might even invalidate the warranty.

The original installer has gone bankrupt, so they can't chase him to bring it up to spec.

The issue: there's a huge, older church hall with huge rads, and then a smaller annex for the pre-school. A system that size I suspect should be zoned under the regs. In fact, a previous plumber has zoned these sections with simple lever valves that they open and shut as needed, as quite often the two areas are used at different times.

I could fit proper zone controls (zone valves, two-channel programer, etc) but the cost of parts for all this is around £550 for Vaillant kit (maybe cheaper for other brands) plus labour. But they don't have much funds for this.

I could put a simple wired stat into the creche (near where the boiler is situated) which would be an improvement, but not the correct way to control the system. Or a wireless stat they could move between zones, though it quite likely would get lost or forgotten about.

I'd prefer to do it all the correct way. But maybe there's a magic, correct solution that won't cost them too much. Any ideas?

Thanks for your advice,

Jennie x.

 

[Tea-Break]

Jennie,
You have a dilemma, which to be fair is not really your problem.
However, my suggestion is fitting an electronic internet enabled stat.
The Hive ones are straight forward to both wire and use. It could be ‘fixed’ in an appropriate
position and used as a normal room stat. Alternatively (if the Church/crèche) are connected
to the internet, then the warden or such could also remotely control times and temps.
Price wise stats are under £150 plus sundries and labour, should be able keep £350-400.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would leave it as it most church spec is not to fit a room stat as there’s too much Heatloss / height so it will never be off

 

[snowhead]

I suspect the original installer(s) had the cost issue to deal with and settled for the system as is.

Jennie what was your reason for being there, Servicing or other issues?
You can only make recommendations, if they can't afford it that's as far as it can go.

 

[oz-plumber]

From your description, it doesn't sound too hard to set up correctly.

Forget the customer is a 'Cash Strapped Church' with a 'Creche' attached.

Adhoc solutions aren't going to get you anywhere and you will be called constantly to rectify menial faults with the remedial control system.

Either set the system up to work as per their requirements and existing system design or bear the squabbles that will be persistent with a 'quick fix solution'.

It's not your fault that the system was not set up to current regulations by the previous installer, but they may have been under the pressure of doing something 'on the cheap' to satisfy the customer.

Either do it as per regulations or walk away.
The £'s you're quoting don't sound too excessive, so don't be shy quoting standard rates for doing the necessary rectifications.

 

[RoryD]

Hi all, I've got a cash-strapped church hall with a 2-year old Vaillant boiler. A timeclock was fitted by the original installer to the front of the boiler, but no room stat. I've advised them this isn't up to the building regs, and that it's not great for the boiler to have so much hot water sitting for so long in it. It might even invalidate the warranty.

The original installer has gone bankrupt, so they can't chase him to bring it up to spec.

The issue: there's a huge, older church hall with huge rads, and then a smaller annex for the pre-school. A system that size I suspect should be zoned under the regs. In fact, a previous plumber has zoned these sections with simple lever valves that they open and shut as needed, as quite often the two areas are used at different times.

I could fit proper zone controls (zone valves, two-channel programer, etc) but the cost of parts for all this is around £550 for Vaillant kit (maybe cheaper for other brands) plus labour. But they don't have much funds for this.

I could put a simple wired stat into the creche (near where the boiler is situated) which would be an improvement, but not the correct way to control the system. Or a wireless stat they could move between zones, though it quite likely would get lost or forgotten about.

I'd prefer to do it all the correct way. But maybe there's a magic, correct solution that won't cost them too much. Any ideas?

Thanks for your advice,

Jennie x.

Jennie, As you say there should be stats to compliment the zones. Rather than "levered" zones, they need to be electically "interlocked" (with the boiler). He will not have complied with the Benchmark outlined in the back of the Installation manual. As hard as it sounds, the fact they haven't the financial resources isn't your problem. All you can do is advise their requirements. Good luck.

 

[Scott_D]

Is it just for heating or is there a hot water cylinder?
A simple room stat will help shut it off in warmer months, it probably won’t get to temp in colder months and people will be fiddling with it.

 

[Gasmk1]

churches always say they are cash strapped but there will be no cheap option, also if its a pre school creche do they have LST radiators. if not that is also breaching regs

 

[centralheatking]

Hi all, I've got a cash-strapped church hall with a 2-year old Vaillant boiler. A timeclock was fitted by the original installer to the front of the boiler, but no room stat. I've advised them this isn't up to the building regs, and that it's not great for the boiler to have so much hot water sitting for so long in it. It might even invalidate the warranty.

The original installer has gone bankrupt, so they can't chase him to bring it up to spec.

The issue: there's a huge, older church hall with huge rads, and then a smaller annex for the pre-school. A system that size I suspect should be zoned under the regs. In fact, a previous plumber has zoned these sections with simple lever valves that they open and shut as needed, as quite often the two areas are used at different times.

I could fit proper zone controls (zone valves, two-channel programer, etc) but the cost of parts for all this is around £550 for Vaillant kit (maybe cheaper for other brands) plus labour. But they don't have much funds for this.

I could put a simple wired stat into the creche (near where the boiler is situated) which would be an improvement, but not the correct way to control the system. Or a wireless stat they could move between zones, though it quite likely would get lost or forgotten about.

I'd prefer to do it all the correct way. But maybe there's a magic, correct solution that won't cost them too much. Any ideas?

Thanks for your advice,

Jennie x.

Is this a community building or a buy out ? If its a community building I will help you. Please let me know your postcode ...if its too far away maybe others will help you. centralheatking I hope you are in the North West

 

[Jennie]

Is this a community building or a buy out ? If its a community building I will help you. Please let me know your postcode ...if its too far away maybe others will help you. centralheatking I hope you are in the North West

Shame - the church is on the south coast. Labour isn't such an issue - it won't take long to install the controls/valves. It's just the controls themselves that will be a huge expense. I suppose that's the funding dilemma every church/community building across the country faces, when expensive maintenance work needs doing.

 

[centralheatking]

Jennie all is not lost. It is quite possible one or other of my corporate partners might like to contribute
...I was a heating engineer with many engineers but my main focus is now concept, design production
and sales of innovative plumbing and heating products. Anyway If you have a 'wish list' do send it to myself ...pm me on here or go via Admin at PF. I am fairly certain I can get one of a few of my contacts to nod it through and put something up but I will need to know all about your Church please.
Rob Foster ...centralheatking

 

[Jennie]

Jennie all is not lost. It is quite possible one or other of my corporate partners might like to contribute
...I was a heating engineer with many engineers but my main focus is now concept, design production
and sales of innovative plumbing and heating products. Anyway If you have a 'wish list' do send it to myself ...pm me on here or go via Admin at PF. I am fairly certain I can get one of a few of my contacts to nod it through and put something up but I will need to know all about your Church please.
Rob Foster ...centralheatking

Jennie all is not lost. It is quite possible one or other of my corporate partners might like to contribute
...I was a heating engineer with many engineers but my main focus is now concept, design production
and sales of innovative plumbing and heating products. Anyway If you have a 'wish list' do send it to myself ...pm me on here or go via Admin at PF. I am fairly certain I can get one of a few of my contacts to nod it through and put something up but I will need to know all about your Church please.
Rob Foster ...centralheatking

Hi Rob,
Thanks so much for your advice.
I'm having trouble private messaging you. I don't suppose you'd send me a private message, and I can reply to you. Thanks so much,
Jennie

 

[centralheatking]

Hi Rob,
Thanks so much for your advice.
I'm having trouble private messaging you. I don't suppose you'd send me a private message, and I can reply to you. Thanks so much,
Jennie

ok I will try or my commercial email is [email protected] ...preface with Jenny it will get past my gatekeepers then or we have landlines....try 01704 878999 office hours ...11.00am on talk to Mike and he will direct you to myself. He goes swimming until then each day at his club be it in Uk or Cyprus .....I am sure we can get your stuff ...Rob Foster ....aka. centralheatking