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Dotty

Please be very aware that this is an open forum.

Please take ALL gas related threads where you are discussing the technical and safety related repair of boilers into the Gas Safe Registered Engineers Sub Forum!

Thank you!
 
Background Colour scheme or something should be different in the locked forums, I never know which of the two I'm in
 
be in there once my CENWAT cert comes through, been waiting a few weeks for it, so to register (not paying £12 extra within days of registering)
 
Hmm! Why have a Gas Safe Registered sign by your name, if you do not advise people other than to tell them not to do anything? It is fairly obvious that if a person says they can see yellow flames in a gas fire that there is something wrong with it. I would say it is acceptable to tell them what it may be but not to touch it, the dangers involved and to call a gas safe engineer. If you give them no idea of what the fault may be, they may very well ignore it and be overcome with carbon monoxide.

The fact that laws exist that make it illegal for certain classes of people to touch gas at all should be sufficient.
 
Surely telling them what it might be will only increase the chances of them messing with it.
 
I don't think so Mike I have usually found the opposite, many people think things are simple and easy to do, if they do not know about it, especially the DIYer. But if you explain the dangers and why it is dangerous, they seem to think again, not use what you have told them to do it. I think it perhaps underlines to them that the job they proposed to do was not as simple as they thought. And once they know the implications for them legally in doing DIY repairs they tend to think it is not worth the bother.

The guy who has no money to repair the boiler will probably have a go regardless of whether you tell him or not.

I mean how many people speed in a car? The speed limits on roads are set by government guys driving down them and assessing the safest fastest driving speed of them. People still speed though but knowing why it is the fastest speed often helps them be more aware and not to speed.

One can only hope educating people to risk helps. Where as keeping them in the dark increases risk and makes gas fitters look like a secretive group wanting to keep secrets from their customers and possibly increase prices for no good reason. That helps break down the customer gas fitter relationship and it becomes customer lunch and a gas fitter shark. You do not really want that, you want repeat business not antipathy and a feeling they are being ripped off.
 
Mixed feelings guys. I go to some who have obviously messed with the boiler before I got there but claim thats how it was left by the last chap! Others are well behaved though and are happy to pay for peace of mind.
 
I'm not even GSR yet. I'm training. But one of the lecturers at my college is rob munton. He's been a gas incident investigator for years. We were shown a couple of slides on a couple of cases he was on. Put it this way, people died because gas registered engineers didn't do their job right. Now if trained people can kill people through negligence, what do you think is gonna happen through DIY ignorance. Just taking the casing off some gas appliances and not putting them back right is enough to kill let alone fiddling with the workings inside.

I'm with the mods. People's safety is paramount.
 
I'm with the mods. Half the jokers coming on here just want telling how to fix it so that they can do it themselves.

It should be sufficient to say do not touch and get a gsr engineer. If they have questions they can ask the engineer they are paying when he arrives on site.

To be honest I wish it was the same for the oil and solid fuel.
 
Hey guys I'll be dealing with the aweful power max 155x. Clients says it doesn't fire up for demand of hot water only.....any ideas!????

Cheers fellas.
 
Flow switch maybe? It has to heat the h/w before it will fire for c/h.
They have two pumps, one on the left for c/h.
I've changed quite a few of the flow switches.
Could just of locked out for low pressure or no gas.
 
withholding infomation is the best way to controll the population ask hitler or stalin saying youve with held it for there own good is removing peoples choices next we will be burning the books and sending people to gas awareness camps
 
To avoid accidents inform people so they can recognise the dangers. Don't inform them and they can kill through ignorance. Most of the information on this forum can be gained elsewhere if people decide to look. Not being free with advice is just silly makes gas fitters look like a secret society.
 
Bernie2 said:
To avoid accidents inform people so they can recognise the dangers. Don't inform them and they can kill through ignorance. Most of the information on this forum can be gainued elsewhere if people decide to look. Not being free with advice is just silly makes gas fitters look like a secret society.
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I'm getting fed up with this.

The forum policy is that we do not give technical advice on the installation or repair of gas boilers or the modification or installation of gas pipework to non gsr's.

The simple explanation of don't touch you're not qualified will suffice.

If they then find out the information elsewhere and manage to kill themselves then that's not our problem.

If you're comfortable with giving such advice and at ease with yourself for doing a gsr out of a job then fine. Go do it. You just won't be doing it on these forums.
 
i couldnt care about giving advice to people and they hurt themselves. id still sleep at night but like croppie said if anything its another person that nerver calls a GSR to repair the job ! they fix one problem and when the next arises they will try and fix that ! and then there house needs a socket added here or there they will read up and do that ! then that wall under the window need skimming so they will do that ! your not only puttin yaself out of a job but a fair few other people too !
 
I went to a house, boiler, gas cooker and flueless fire.
Boss had to repair the boiler and service everything
I got the fire so i went to the fire, checked it over, took it apart and alarm bells rang when a plate was missing in the flue ways.

turned out the gas fire kept going out and the owner had read about a restricter plate causing the flame to burn out online.

it wasnt a restrictor plate, it was the catalytic converter!

since then I've been cagey explaining how things work to customers.

im with the mods, general public shouldn't get technical advice on boilers, gas runs or any gas appliance.
Im saying this and I'm not even gas safe yet!
 
1king55 said:
I went to a house, boiler, gas cooker and flueless fire.
Boss had to repair the boiler and service everything
I got the fire so i went to the fire, checked it over, took it apart and alarm bells rang when a plate was missing in the flue ways.

turned out the gas fire kept going out and the owner had read about a restricter plate causing the flame to burn out online.

it wasnt a restrictor plate, it was the catalytic converter!

since then I've been cagey explaining how things work to customers.

im with the mods, general public shouldn't get technical advice on boilers, gas runs or any gas appliance.
Im saying this and I'm not even gas safe yet!
Click to expand...

ive been to a job before for a boiler change and went to do tightness test etc the test nipple was missing the screw !! but to cover the hole was white tack ! ive got a picture somwhere ! basically the customer had read online on how to move his bayonet cooker point over so his new range cooker would be closer to the back wall ! he lost the screw for the test nipple and used white tack ! he orederd a new screw online and when my boss said the screw missing he said "yer ive ordered another one ill try and find it, keep meaning to put it back" turns out it had been like that for a few months !

some people are just dangerous ! and i wouldnt care if he blew himself up i really am heartless but its next door alos with there baby ! and its me and my boss who have lost out on £60 to move cooker point etc ! ill try and find the picture
 
cant really see but the big white blob is white tack !

IMG_3591.jpg
 
Probably lost the test nipple.

18_25912.jpeg

I lost one myself once but instead of doing whatever's happened there I called National Grid out and within 15 minutes they'd dropped a handful off for me. Was miles from any merchants so it worked out nicely.
 
Hi.. I just started my gas safe course and got asked, why do we do standing,working and burner pressure tests??
 
Ramjadav said:
Hi.. I just started my gas safe course and got asked, why do we do standing,working and burner pressure tests??
Click to expand...
Ask them to tell you, that's what they're there for.
 
Listen I was asking for help, nit telling you to believe me I dont care to be honest I was struggling and thought someone would be able to help but guess not!!!! Fool
 
Ramjadav said:
It's a home learning course, I got asked by a family member?
Click to expand...

But you said YOU had just started the gas safety course not a family member.
 
Ramjadav. You've asked the same question in multiple threads. This is trolling. Don't do it.

Consider yourself warned.

And you'll get your questions answered if and when you go on a real ACS course. Not a mickey mouse one that is fleecing you.
 
It always amazes me the ignorance of certain people. It seems they don't appreciate just how much hard work, time and training goes into making a good gas engineer. They think if a bloke in a van can do it then so can I! You can bet those same people wouldn't represent themselves in court instead of paying for a solicitor when they caused a gas incident. Or give themselves medical attention instead of going to a professional when they hurt themselves in that incident.

Peoples attitudes need to change towards us blokes in vans. They probably won't though.

Quote from a recent customer after I AR'd his unsupported flue..

"You people don't know what safety is!" Ha Ha :D
 
Hmm! A policeman was asked if it was safe to drive along a route at 60mph he replied "I am not telling you, your not a policeman!" ridicules, but perhaps an attitude some gas fitters seem to be getting. It is sufficient to give a warning about the law that tells of the need to use a registered gas installer for gas work not to withhold information. One can read or get information about how to use a gun, it does not mean you go about shooting people. A doctor will tell you what they propose to do in an operation, it does not mean you get the knife out and have a go yourself. So with holding information is just silly. After a warning it is up to the person to be responsible themselves. This is supposedly a help forum not a secret society, how can you help people if you tell them nothing? The information is intended to help people decide in a more balanced way as to what may be wrong with their gas system not for them to attempt to fix it themselves. Nearly all the big sheds give quite detailed information sheets after first warning people. The Copper Association gives professional information. What is wrong with that? It is not doing people out of work at all. Not to give information may in fact encourage people to have a go themselves on the basis that it looks easy. The point about using professionals is about right, but how will they know there is more to gas fitting if you do not tell them? Anyway most people I feel sure would use more professionals for many things, what stops them now is cost probably, except where they are forced too use them. As a young man in the 60's contractors where used extensively by many people for all kinds of things painting and decorating their homes and so on. It was the rising wage bills and subsequent job price increases that stopped them using contractors to the extent they once did. Lets also be honest many TV programs give away information all the time promoted by the big sheds. You can go into a shed and buy a gas boiler and fittings if you want too. It is the law that stops people fitting them for a living not information. It is probably information that makes them have second thoughts about fitting when they learn how complicated and dangerous it can be. Lets be honest you can kill with a car they are dangerous but nobody stops you buying them, it is up to you to drive properly even after a test that allows you to do so.
 
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What you fail to take into account is that we are now in a far more litigeously minded society than we were 15, 20, 30 years ago. We are also in the middle of one of the worst depressions in early 40 years so people are more inclined to come on here to save a few quid.

YOU, meanwhile, go out and spend a couple of grand getting yourself trained to install, maintain and repair gas boilers.

Joe has a problem with his boiler, you know exactly what it is and tell him so. Joe is an engineer and thinks to himself "It's only a fan, how hard can it be?"

Joe and his family don't wake up the next morning. During the investigation into the CO poisoning case the HSE discover a print out of the UKPF page where you said "It's the fan mate."

There would be the possibilty that UKPF Admins and Mods as the forum management would be held culpable for allowing said info to be given. A remote possibility but one I'm not prepared to put to the test. Not only that I wouldn't want ANY fatalities on my conscience.

So not only have you been complicit in a death but you've managed to get the forum closed because Dan would have his hand forced by legal actions. You would also be responsible for another gsr, as equally trained and qualified, to be forced into the position of signing on because he cannot get work because we're telling Joe how to do everything.

The car analogy doesn't wash. You go through a period of training and practising under supervision. You are then rigorously tested. You are only permitted to legally go it alone if you pass those tests and adhere to the Highway Code. Failure to comply results in heavy penalties.

Whereas with the Gas Industry you go through a period of training and practising under supervision. You are then rigorously tested. You are only permitted to legally go it alone if you pass those tests and adhere to the GIUSR's. Failure to comply results in heavy penalties.

So no. The UKPF and it's members won't be offering any advice other than get a competent person in!
 
No I would not agree, drivers may have to pass a test, but how many know or should know the speed limits and do not keep them, are you suggesting speed limit signs are a waste of time? Are you supposing boiler manufacturers keep their information to themselves and only declare their people fit to install their boilers? That would virtually put the whole small business section of the gas industry out of work. You know Croppie, that when you make a report you do not state definitively what it is, you make suggestions of what it could be, that way you are not usually held by law to be responsible, it is up to the person to take it further. With the added rejoinder that you are required to meet legal requirements before you do anything. The forum should get legal advice as to what information and advice they are allowed to give rather than just put out a blanket ban. It make you look self interested which is a bit pointless for a public forum.
 
We do not need legal advice. The forum rules are as they are.

You can take it or leave it.
 
Bernie2 said:
No I would not agree, drivers may have to pass a test, but how many know or should know the speed limits and do not keep them, are you suggesting speed limit signs are a waste of time? Are you supposing boiler manufacturers keep their information to themselves and only declare their people fit to install their boilers? That would virtually put the whole small business section of the gas industry out of work. You know Croppie, that when you make a report you do not state definitively what it is, you make suggestions of what it could be, that way you are not usually held by law to be responsible, it is up to the person to take it further. With the added rejoinder that you are required to meet legal requirements before you do anything. The forum should get legal advice as to what information and advice they are allowed to give rather than just put out a blanket ban. It make you look self interested which is a bit pointless for a public forum.
Click to expand...

It's illegal for a person who lacks competence to affect any gas pathway, appliance or fitting. If you need advice and you are not a member of a group of persons approved by the HSE. The similarity with driving ends at the Identification card, picture on the front, qualifications on back. If you need advice on gas related issues your not competent...... Case and point.
 
As a non gsr engineer I totally agree with the old saying that a little information in the wrong hands is dangerous and none more so than on this subject but often the reply given of We will not give out .............................as a one or two line reply smacks of being High n Mighty and I can see why some OP get upset.

Instead why not direct them to the gas safe forum board or a sticky where they will see a more detailed single paragraph response on why this friendly forum is unable to repond to their question.

Don`t jump down my throat if Im out of order, Im not in the mood for fishing and this is my only post on the subject.
 
rpm said:
As a non gsr engineer I totally agree with the old saying that a little information in the wrong hands is dangerous and none more so than on this subject but often the reply given of We will not give out .............................as a one or two line reply smacks of being High n Mighty and I can see why some OP get upset.

Instead why not direct them to the gas safe forum board or a sticky where they will see a more detailed single paragraph response on why this friendly forum is unable to repond to their question.

Don`t jump down my throat if Im out of order, Im not in the mood for fishing and this is my only post on the subject.
Click to expand...

There's a prominent notice at the top of a few forums which expands slightly on the response I give when I close a thread.

That response is as follows....

We cannot and will not give advice on the installation or repair of boilers, cookers or ANY gas appliances for your own safety.

Please go to Gas Safe Register | Ensure your gas engineer is registered. or post a thread in the 'I'm looking for a plumber / gas engineer' section of these forums remembering to include your location. [DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]

If you are gsr please increase your post count to 10+ then send a PM (Private Message) with your gsr details to either Gas man - http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/users/8668/ or Redsaw - http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/users/2718/ who will check you and then give you access to the gsr private forum.

Providing gas-related advice to anybody who should not be touching gas and cannot prove their competetence is unacceptable. We will take whatever action we deem appropriate to prevent such advice being given


Thank you.
 
Here's one for you.

I was talking to an electrician today who had been doing some work in one of the local estates houses. He'd done a rewire and also fitted heat sensors, smoke alarms and a co alarm. A multi fuel stove had been installed just before somebody moved in. He saw the bloke a few days later and was told that he'd had the fire brigade out at half eleven one night as the co alarm had activated. He'd been on his way to bed and the rest of the family was asleep. Fire brigade was there all night venting the house. Incorrectly installed stove, issues with the flue.

Now the interesting part of the story and it gobsmacked me. The electrician had said that he thought that only gas appliances had the ability to kill you through carbon monoxide poisoning.

Luckily all the family were fine, but people's understanding , or lack of, when it comes to combustion is astounding.
 
I think it also has something to do with people thinking natural gas is highly toxic.

I hear people all the time saying things like

"I didn't want to gas myself"

Or

Could it gas me? (When talking about faulty appliance)

They seem to think about it being poisonous more so than explosive


Obviously the Co is but I mean when they turn a hob on without igniting it
 
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Still surprises me how few people have smoke detectors or painted over spot type CO indicators from 2001!
 
another youngster just found dead in her tent yesterday locally, probably co poisoning again!
 
Ah no!

How long before they learn it's bloody stupid to run a bbq in the tents of today?

Mind you when we were camping as kids dad used to hang up a gas fired lamp. I think the gale whistling through our old tent may have been a godsend!
 
lame plumber said:
another youngster just found dead in her tent yesterday locally, probably co poisoning again!
Click to expand...

To be fair the awareness just isn't there.

I remember camping a few years ago. Before learning anything about gas.

We were using a gas lamp to heat the tent as we were freezing. Had a LPG two hob burner in the tent with just a small zip open for ventilation.

At the time it was just complete ignorance but if there were any warnings on the equipment I was using it obviously didn't catch my attention.

I could have killed myself and the ball and chain.

More seriously needs to be done to promote awareness.
 
kyle87 said:
To be fair the awareness just isn't there.

I remember camping a few years ago. Before learning anything about gas.

We were using a gas lamp to heat the tent as we were freezing. Had a LPG two hob burner in the tent with just a small zip open for ventilation.

At the time it was just complete ignorance but if there were any warnings on the equipment I was using it obviously didn't catch my attention.

I could have killed myself and the ball and chain.

More seriously needs to be done to promote awareness.
Click to expand...

This is very true, and very serious. None of my camping cooking gear has any warnings about CO, just about not setting the tent on fire...
 
Masood said:
This is very true, and very serious. None of my camping cooking gear has any warnings about CO, just about not setting the tent on fire...
Click to expand...

Also it really wouldn't take much for the camping sites to have a sign warning people. Maybe some leaflets etc
 
I do quite a bit of work on the sites over here, I think I'll have a chat with the wardens and bang some notices up.

If it makes people think again that's good enough for me!
 
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