Gas At risk notice on hob

[plumbster3456]

I have discussed this query out with Gas Safe technical and they agree that the document is not that specific. They tend to agree that "turning off" a gas appliances/installation requires turning off the gas valve. The interpretation of "turning Off" will be put forward for discussion, at the next review of IUSP which will be sitting sortly. So watch this space.

so if an appliance has the potential to be dangerous should you not ideally cap it then?

 

[kirkgas]

this is likely to be clarified soon, but a lot of us have for a long time thought turning off an appliance where the customer turns it off as not adequate for safety but tht is what it says in the IUP so it is what i do, the reason for not doing any more comes from the risk of someone saying i am over stepping the mark and capping a supply i had no right to, because when you cap a supply you need to then check your work and perhaps purge and retest which can bring its own problems, if they clarify and say the iso valve should be shut off it will be interesting to see if they demand we prove the iso isnt passing, and even it i test it and it doesnt pass who's to say it wont start passing if the customer turns it on and off a few times, the only solution is to change procedure to demand we cap an AR as we do with ID then qe are all claer and 100% safe
we shall see if they do it properly or bottle out of the right decision as they did with cooker FSD's

 

[Reg Man]

Kirk, you have concern for testing isolation valve if you turn it off. What do you do when servicing a boiler or disconnecting a cooker from a bayonette fitting. do you test after you have turned off before you carry out the service? Does the customer test the bayonette fitting when they disconnect to clean behind the cooker? We rely on the valve to a certain extent. The purpose of turning off the gas isolation valve on an AR situation, is telling everyone that there is a potential for danger and therefore I have turned the gas off. If you turn it back on you do it at your own risk. Enjoyed all of your comments, as I am with you on a very contenious issue.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

the problem with capping at ar will mean "whats the point of ar?" might as well be id,the regs need more clarification

 

[Reg Man]

I think there is a big difference between physicaly disconnecting by capping off, or turning off the gas. With ID if customer refuses you go to the ESP to take over and do the disconnection. Its up to the regulators to clarify this situation and this has been proposed so lets see what comes out of it.

 

[GrahamM]

If the AR procedure is on the cards to be reviewed and updated, I cannot see a decision being made any time soon.
The issue is you are saying it has the potential to become unsafe etc., not, it is unsafe. I for one cannot see it changing to "this appliance potentially may become dangerous sometime in future so I am cutting the gas to it". If that is the case then just do away with the AR procedure and cut straight to ID. The argument may be, at this moment in time my appliance is operating correctly, so what right have you to cut of the gas to it. This will take a lot of legislation changes to alter this procedure.
As kirky mentioned you could also be opening up a can of worms by messing around with iso valves that can be a little delicate at times. So again the AR procedure would need to be made an offence for an unqualified person to reinstate the gas in my book. So again there would be no point in having AR when there is ID.

 

[kirkgas]

Kirk, you have concern for testing isolation valve if you turn it off. What do you do when servicing a boiler or disconnecting a cooker from a bayonette fitting. do you test after you have turned off before you carry out the service? Does the customer test the bayonette fitting when they disconnect to clean behind the cooker? We rely on the valve to a certain extent. The purpose of turning off the gas isolation valve on an AR situation, is telling everyone that there is a potential for danger and therefore I have turned the gas off. If you turn it back on you do it at your own risk. Enjoyed all of your comments, as I am with you on a very contenious issue.

if i'm leaving a bayonet as a permanent point of isloation i do a TT to confirm it is completely shut, if i disconnect a cooker to do something i dont, as im there and in charge of a short term situation and the cooker will be going back in, again i dont with a boiler service as im there and re-connecting it again soon, however to isolate an appliance and leave it as it is AR is different as we have no idea when or if it will ever be resolved so the valve could be off for ever, therefore increasing risk to the customer, i have had cause to pull up contractors in the past on kitchen refurb contracts who had labourers disconnecting the cookers at the bayonet in the morning of a 2 day job, with no tests getting done, then occasionally you get a leaking bayonet being reported as a gas leak, their gaffer said they are allowed to disconnect it as the customer is allowed it isnt a gas job, fine i said but you cant leave a bayonet for a couple of days without checking it is ok in case you have a leak at it, the leak goes unnoticed all day as the door is open all day with loads of people going in and out, its only when the guys go away at night that the smell builds up, i think if there was an explosion caused by this the contractor would be in trouble a they have a care of duty to only deploy competant people to do work in peoples houses, so back to our scenario of shutting off an iso vale and not checking it is fully off, i would be blaming the guy who turned off something he knew was AR and didnt take ALL steps to ensure his work didnt increase risk to customers, because using IUP as it is at the moment he would simply shut off appliance and advise customer not to use,

 

[metaldust9]

i agree with you both and also i would write on gas safety certificate what id done so if they do switch it back on your covered cos you have it in writing