Estimates vs Quotations

[stevetheplumb]

Hi, having trouble recovering money from a certain school who keep saying Ive gone over my "quote" except I never gave a quote but a rough estimate as the work needed was short notice and not entirely clear.

 

[jim fennessey]

Excellent article

 

[Radioman]

I see this week George Osborne wants all self employed people to do a tax return quarterly every year,talk about more red tape nonsense and accountants fees,what say you all ,???

I read that as well. As it was in the daily mail I sort of took it with a pinch of salt. I think the point of it is to get the turnover figures to HMRC so they can asses if VAT thresholds are exceeded quarterly. In fact I suppose if you are vat registered already then it's not much more work?

This is to be tied in to the proposal in the 2015 budget speech to introduce a compulsory government online bank account for self employed. With on line tax returns helping to fund the 5% cut in staff levels at HMRC.

As a ltd co we paid around £1500 pa for accountancy, later as SE I paid about £350 pa for accountancy. Quadrupling those figures would have put a big strain on finances during the worst of the recession. I know of no other country in the world where you put profit and loss tax returns in 4 times a year. I stand to be educated!

If it becomes a reality it will just drive more se trades into cash in hand. I bet Mr Eastern European and Mr Dispossessed will be first in line to submit their figures.

 

[oz-plumber]

We in Oz have to provide BAS ( Business Activity Statements ) quarterly.

Basically pay tax on your income 4 times a year.
Doesn't affect employees - just businesses.

It's not necessarily a bad thing.
It makes you keep up to date with your bookwork, and also makes you more vigilant about slow payers.

 

[Radioman]

We in Oz have to provide BAS ( Business Activity Statements ) quarterly.

Basically pay tax on your income 4 times a year.
Doesn't affect employees - just businesses.

Told you I would get educated

 

[Ray Stafford]

Medium and large companies in the UK already have to estimate their current year tax liability and pay quarterly on account.

The chancellor doesn't want to wait until the company has a year end, then wait 8 months to do the accounts, and then pay the tax - in some cases 20 months after the profit generating transaction has occurred.

Assuming that you are regularly putting money by for the tax liability, it just means that the chancellor gets the interest on this instead of you. At present, its surprisingly little paperwork (but quite a lot of guesswork). I expect that the new online system will be complete carp to start with. They usually are.

 

[Masood]

100% agree. This is my POV as a recently retired tradesman who had many customers try to wriggle out of paying over 25 years. Set your stall out from day one with regard to terms of business. There is plenty of help out there for the self employed regarding debt recovery and the correct processes. Trading standards is a good place to start, offering templates etc. So you must must must get your paperwork in order. This means following the correct procedure and wording for estimates, contracts, additional work to estimate, payment profile, etc. In my experience if a sole trader is not prepared to do this then don't bother starting up in business. The cold hard fact is there are many individuals who just don't want to pay the full price. Top tips: with every estimate enclose your Terms and Condition in which it should state clearly your stage payment schedule, advanced payment for materials, penalties for cancellation, definition of an estimate, state clearly that acceptance of the estimate either verbally or in writing is a contract. If a customer calls you and asks for a "quote" ask them if they want a fixed price and explain the difference between and estimate which is an educated guess and a quote which is a guaranteed fixed price and subject to re negotiation for extras! Don't work for nothing! Your liabilities to Mr Smart Arse you did a cheap job for are the same as a proper earner so think carefully. Make sure you are insured, read the small print on the policy. I found that my insurers of 10 years had stuck a new clause into my policy preventing me from working on buildings higher thin 15 meters. When I questioned it thinking they must have thought I had become a roofer, I was told it included internal works due to the risk of extensive damage to floors below. To increase to all buildings would have doubled the premium with that company of bandits. Lastly, pick and choose your customers, many on here will know what I mean without me going into details. Sufficient to say that certain ethnic groups of the population have a very different attitude to paying their way in life. So you become very aware of who to not to even do a price for.
My SOP for work with over £250 materials was to get money for materials and waste removal either before starting or on the day work started. No money and I would walk. Then agree stage payments on completion of certain work, eg bathroom ripped out, fist fix, tile installed then balance on completion. My aim was to leave no more than 10% on the job on the last day. Get the cust to sign a satisfaction note.

In the last year of business we got a card machine so we could eliminate one more excuse for not paying on the day.

Get all of the above right and it works. With your current outstanding debt I would call the school secretary on the phone and make an appointment to visit in person to discuss the consequences of not paying for work and materials. Have that face to face and make it clear that you will pursue the debt legally. Go to
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/going-to-court and download the forms, fill them out and take them with you to show you mean business.
Good luck

Good post and I would have liked and thanked you but for the thinly-veiled racism.

I've been knocked twice in my 5 years of being self-employed, both times by white middle-class English people. I've had loads of haggling from other communities, but never non-payment.

So let's just say that some people are dishonest tw@s regardless of ethnicity and leave it at that, eh?

 

[Radioman]

Good post and I would have liked and thanked you but for the thinly-veiled racism.


So let's just say that some people are dishonest tw@s regardless of ethnicity and leave it at that, eh?

Your 5 years experience v my 42 years.

One of the biggest benefits of being self employed is having the choice to pick and choose your customers and sub contractors. Deciding who to work with and for is only gained by experience and by analysing the profit and loss of contracts. It's not always about the money, the experience has a value as well. I have no truck with the come one come all mentality of the politically and socially liberal. I live and used to work in a country that allows freedom of choice and that's what I chose to exercise as it made sound practical business sense.

My advice to the OP is to pick and choose his customers. Put another way, don't back a lame duck.

 

[Masood]

Your 5 years experience v my 42 years.

One of the biggest benefits of being self employed is having the choice to pick and choose your customers and sub contractors. Deciding who to work with and for is only gained by experience and by analysing the profit and loss of contracts. It's not always about the money, the experience has a value as well. I have no truck with the come one come all mentality of the politically and socially liberal. I live and used to work in a country that allows freedom of choice and that's what I chose to exercise as it made sound practical business sense.

My advice to the OP is to pick and choose his customers. Put another way, don't back a lame duck.

Got no problem with picking and choosing customers, nor with exercising freedom of choice. I do have a problem with tarring whole communities with the same brush.

You have the right to speak your mind, I have the right to call you on it. Doesn't matter how many years you've been doing it. I will 100% guarantee that not every single ethnic person knocked you, and that of the people who did, some were British born and bred.

 

[Radioman]

Like many you are jumping to a conclusion based on misinformation and miss understanding

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, social, cultural or national experience. Unlike most other social groups, ethnicity is primarily an inherited status. Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, homeland, language and/or dialect, symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, art, and physical appearance.

Ethnic groups, derived from the same historical founder population, often continue to speak related languages and share a similar gene pool. By way of language shift, acculturation, adoption and religious conversion, it is possible for some individuals or groups to leave one ethnic group and become part of another (except for ethnic groups emphasizing racial purity as a key membership criterion).

Ethnicity is often used synonymously with ambiguous terms such as nation or people.


The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Race refers to a person's physical characteristics, such as bone structure and skin, hair, or eye color. Ethnicity, however, refers to cultural factors, including nationality, regional culture, ancestry, and language. An example of race is brown, white, or black skin (all from various parts of the world), while an example of ethnicity is German or Spanish ancestry (regardless of race).


So my friend show humility before you cast aspersions

 

[Masood]

Like many you are jumping to a conclusion based on misinformation and miss understanding

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, social, cultural or national experience. Unlike most other social groups, ethnicity is primarily an inherited status. Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, homeland, language and/or dialect, symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, art, and physical appearance.

Ethnic groups, derived from the same historical founder population, often continue to speak related languages and share a similar gene pool. By way of language shift, acculturation, adoption and religious conversion, it is possible for some individuals or groups to leave one ethnic group and become part of another (except for ethnic groups emphasizing racial purity as a key membership criterion).

Ethnicity is often used synonymously with ambiguous terms such as nation or people.


The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Race refers to a person's physical characteristics, such as bone structure and skin, hair, or eye color. Ethnicity, however, refers to cultural factors, including nationality, regional culture, ancestry, and language. An example of race is brown, white, or black skin (all from various parts of the world), while an example of ethnicity is German or Spanish ancestry (regardless of race).


So my friend show humility before you cast aspersions

No misunderstanding on my part. You're playing semantic games to try and justify the unjustifiable. Your meaning was very clear in your first post and now you're trying to redefine commonly-used terms to avoid taking responsibility for your opinions.

Ethnicity and race are pretty well intertwined, as it is most commonly the case that those sharing language, culture, modes of dress, etc. will be from geographically proximate areas, and thus will likely share biological traits as well.

I'm not casting aspersions. Merely pointing out that swingeing negative accusations against whole ethnic communities is called - in common terms - racism.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Like many you are jumping to a conclusion based on misinformation and miss understanding

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, social, cultural or national experience. Unlike most other social groups, ethnicity is primarily an inherited status. Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, homeland, language and/or dialect, symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, art, and physical appearance.

Ethnic groups, derived from the same historical founder population, often continue to speak related languages and share a similar gene pool. By way of language shift, acculturation, adoption and religious conversion, it is possible for some individuals or groups to leave one ethnic group and become part of another (except for ethnic groups emphasizing racial purity as a key membership criterion).

Ethnicity is often used synonymously with ambiguous terms such as nation or people.


The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Race refers to a person's physical characteristics, such as bone structure and skin, hair, or eye color. Ethnicity, however, refers to cultural factors, including nationality, regional culture, ancestry, and language. An example of race is brown, white, or black skin (all from various parts of the world), while an example of ethnicity is German or Spanish ancestry (regardless of race).


So my friend show humility before you cast aspersions

Mate, you're in a hole, stop digging.

It was, in general, an excellent post, but one sentence was also an example of casual, every day racism.

 

[Dotty]

Right. Closing this thread now before anyone goes too far.

Racism, casual or otherwise, is not tolerated on this forum.