DIY Project To Zone My House

[Dannyparty92]

Urmmm Robert was going to be the name for the robot :blush5:.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Then how you gonna connect all that pipe to rads without fittings 3x honeywell 2 ports 180 ish as well, then a call to someone to sort it out when you hash it up

 

[SimonG]

Note to other users thinking of doing something similar.

This is not the way to do it, please employ the services of a decent (preferably recommended) plumber/heating engineer.

IMHO

 

[vern]

Great another sparky-joiner on the forums......good luck when the 438 throws a certain fault related to flow, directly related to what you are going to try to do!

 

[Dannyparty92]

Remember your going to need to use copper for the first 3 meters from the boiler for your heating pipe work.

 

[Richard at Home]

I totally agree with the comment above

No offence taken

 

[Dannypipe]

You agree that you are going to have to fit an S-plan plus, or you agree that the robot should be called Robert?

 

[Destroyer2813]

You agree that you are going to have to fit an S-plan plus, or you agree that the robot should be called Robert?

Probably Robert

 

[Richard at Home]

I am not touching the main boiler or output pipes they are 10m away from where I will be working all that is in and working.

All I am going to do is adding extra pip work so I end up with 2 or 3 circuits controlled by the valves.

To me this is not a large job

2 days in the loft to input main 22mm pipe work

 

[Millsy 82]

If you are trying to save money why dont you do it properley 1st time not a botched diy job (it might work as you want but im not so sure). If you have seperate zones with seperate programmable room stats it would be more cost effective in the long run. Plus circumstances might change in the future so you may have to alter it accordingley and to do it right will not cost alot extra to what you are suggesting.

I understand what you are trying to achieve but it will be incorrect (as has been said before) and if installed correctly then different zones could be kept at different temperatures saving you money in the long run.

 

[dancinplumba]

Probably Robert

whos robert then ?

 

[Dannypipe]

Well, I genuinely wish you the best of British and would be most grateful if you give us some feedback. Photos are always nice too!

Keep asking questions on here. We're a friendly bunch, even if we don't agree with your ideas!

 

[Richard at Home]

Great another sparky-joiner on the forums......good luck when the 438 throws a certain fault related to flow, directly related to what you are going to try to do!

I have seen most of the 438 Error codes when the boiler was commissioned

It now works like a dream and has done so for 3 years

The only thing that broke was the silly plastic control knobs for hot water and heating fell off the front of the boiler ( Rubbish Design )

Valiant engineer said this was a common fault on this unit.

Supplied a fix kit.

 

[Richard at Home]

Thanks and I do understand why you dont agree with my ideas.

I will supply pictures and i am looking forward to see how well it does or does not work

I am going to draw up a Quick Layout that should show what i will be implementing

I will post it in 10 mins

 

[secret squirrel]

I have sat here and read most of the pages of this saga, I don't understand why people are still commenting on it,

The OP is going to do this no matter what advice he's given, will not listen to what he's being advised. That is unless it agrees with what he wants.

There is a wealth of experience on here and every time someone with a huge amount of experience says something the OP comes back again, blustering about how good he is.

Just give up, let him get on with it, come back or not, why bother? move on to the next post.

As a customer he'd be your worst nightmare and who'd want to work for him anyway, he's better off flying solo!

 

[lame plumber]

night night said zebidee boingggggg (the old way of ending childrens hour)

 

[SimonG]

Could really do with this thread deleting to stop somebody else trying to copy.

 

[jase158]

so let me get this straight in my head and I will draw a lil diagram,

you are going to have 3 zone valves coming off the exisisting central heating valve,
these will control
1 = 4 rads
1= 2 rads
1= 13 rads?
what is going to control these valves?
How will you move them from shut to open and visa versa?
what happens when the person in the house wants more heat?
what happens when the person in the house wants less heat?

sorry if this is already covered but I want to understand without weeding through hundreds of posts

 

[jase158]

so your talking something like this?

 

[tooltarticus]

The hot water would be unaffected as it is on the y Plan currently. MY zone project will just switch the zone valves on and off throughout the day regardless of what the boiler is doing

This will hopefully reduce the complexity of control system requirements

Hope you follow what i am saying

no, I dont. if your hot water is on a y plan, then thats going to have to change as your talking about making your system a multi zone s plan. so you will need an additional zone for hot water.

 

[jase158]

Thanks and I do understand why you dont agree with my ideas.

I will supply pictures and i am looking forward to see how well it does or does not work

I am going to draw up a Quick Layout that should show what i will be implementing

I will post it in 10 mins

that was 38 minutes ago!!

 

[leethegasman]

We have no plan to control any aspects of the Boiler

This is done with the Valiant time clock and VR65 Control Unit

Thanks

Not going to get to involved with this one richard but VR65 is just a wiring center i can see what you are trying to do and when i put a new system in my home i wonted to zone it and did and have 5 zones, have had this system for years and works very well.
you asked for help and there are a lot of lads and poss girls on here that tried to give you the correct way to do it but you did not seam to take any advise which i dont understand what ever you decide to do will poss work in some way in the end but if you put your method of controls in my home i know i would not be happy with the way it would work , every one knows why and have been trying to tell you.

 

[jase158]

The confusion for me is how are these 3 zone valves going to open and close
the programmer (in my head anyway) is connected to the 3 port valve, thermostats i.e.
so how does the zone valves open up?
could be done with a thermostat? or even a fused spur! or even an immersion heater timeclock!! but the Op has overlooked this and is not even thinking it is neccessary.
please OP tell us all how you will be opening these up!!
obviously everyonw is saying it would be better if the boiler was interlocked with each zone valve so it doesnt fire up unless the zone valves are open.
And in the interest of safety, what are you going to do if the programmer is calling for heat and the thermostat is calling for heat, but there is no zone valves open? you will have boiler firing, pump pushing but nowhere for the water to go!!

 

[Richard at Home]

Yes Jase this is the layout i am working to

Thanks

 

[tooltarticus]

I have seen both in action

At least when a ameture does a bad job you can justify it

When you see a profetional make a mess it is embarrising

um....

 

[Richard at Home]

the zones will open and close throughout the day on a pre programmed time clock

If i choose at 5PM the number 3 radiator is to be hot this zone valve will open at 5 and if the boiler is on it will heat

If the house is warm and no heat is on the valve will open but will not have any affect because the boiler is not fired up

 

[jase158]

It is illegal in the Uk for any person who is not competent and registered with a competent persons scheme to install any new cables.

However the pipes will work. but I wouldnt use plastic in your attic, especially as a diyer

 

[leethegasman]

I am not touching the main boiler or output pipes they are 10m away from where I will be working all that is in and working.

All I am going to do is adding extra pip work so I end up with 2 or 3 circuits controlled by the valves.

To me this is not a large job

2 days in the loft to input main 22mm pipe work

No one has said you dont have the skills to do pipework ,I can lay bricks but if i dont take the advice given to me to install a lintal its just a pile of bricks the next day that someone has to clean up

 

[Richard at Home]

The confusion for me is how are these 3 zone valves going to open and close
the programmer (in my head anyway) is connected to the 3 port valve, thermostats i.e.
so how does the zone valves open up?
could be done with a thermostat? or even a fused spur! or even an immersion heater timeclock!! but the Op has overlooked this and is not even thinking it is neccessary.
please OP tell us all how you will be opening these up!!
obviously everyonw is saying it would be better if the boiler was interlocked with each zone valve so it doesnt fire up unless the zone valves are open.
And in the interest of safety, what are you going to do if the programmer is calling for heat and the thermostat is calling for heat, but there is no zone valves open? you will have boiler firing, pump pushing but nowhere for the water to go!!

in answer to your question about the heating but no valves open

There will always be a core circuit of 5 radiators that will be on the main circuit ( Not zoned ) so when the boiler comes on it will always be heating at least 5 of the 19 radiators

There will also be a bypass valve to cope with the TRV valves as they close

Hope this helps answer your question

Regards
Richard

 

[Richard at Home]

It is illegal in the Uk for any person who is not competent and registered with a competent persons scheme to install any new cables.

However the pipes will work. but I wouldnt use plastic in your attic, especially as a diyer

Why would you not reccomend plastic in my loft ? Just out of interest.

 

[Richard at Home]

Yes i have just finished a 35m2 extention

great fun

 

[lame plumber]

its soooo wrong but what do we know!!!! cant someone shut this thread down pse

 

[jase158]

and think about it properly,

if you zone the other rooms, your family member will be cold, he will turn the thermostat up and turn time clock on by boiler to fire boiler up, then open his programmer, the whole house is now being heated.

so you MUST zone all radiators so that the person who is home will turn on the programmer and the zone he wants to open when he is cold.

but the best option is to leave the area that the person is going to be in unzoned, then he can just turn the boiler on as usual when he wants heat, then have the rest of the house on timer, so it is warm in morning and when you get home from work!!

the way I see it is that you are assuming that you will know the times when he is warm and cold!! but you really need to set the house so he can adjust freely when he wants aswell as having the timers.

 

[jase158]

Why would you not reccomend plastic in my loft ? Just out of interest.

when I first started out as a plumber, I used plastic. When testing there would be several leaks from not fitting correctly, pipes not cleaned properly and forgetting inserts, 3-4 leaks in an attic would cause a lot of damage.
they also leak several months later as they may seem right but they aint and they can be eaten by mice

 

[leethegasman]

:mad2:

the zones will open and close throughout the day on a pre programmed time clock

If i choose at 5PM the number 3 radiator is to be hot this zone valve will open at 5 and if the boiler is on it will heat

If the house is warm and no heat is on the valve will open but will not have any affect because the boiler is not fired up

 

[Dannypipe]

I'll say it one last time. (Others have all said it). Then I'll leave you to do what you want.

Get rid of the three port valve. Fit 2 port valves, all with their own stat, and preferably with their own timer too. This includes the hot water cylinder....which you can still use the existing cylinder stat, you will just need alter the wiring.

Don't come off a three port valve with a bank of two ports. It's just crap plumbing. It will have anyone who works on the system in the future scratching their heads, and rubbing their chin, whilst sighing.

If a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing properly. Isn't that true?

There is a bloke on here "Gray0689", who reguarly fits systems on a manifold, with actuators. Each room has it's own stat. Great, but only if it's done from scratch by a proffessional.

I will now remain silent, and let you do what you wish....and I wish you well.

 

[dancinplumba]

been installing plastic since it came on the market, it has its place and if installed correctly gives no problem

 

[tooltarticus]

What is the point of going to all the effort of forming separate zones without giving each zone thermostat interlock? It would be little more effort to make it an s plan plus system, which is tried and tested for one thing! I don't mean to be rude, but do you genuinely think you have put more time and effort into system design and testing than Honeywell for example?

 

[Richard at Home]

Thanks, for your advise. i have not had a great deal of experience with it to be honest i guess time will tell

Mabe another thread

eeekkkkk

 

[Richard at Home]

Thanks, for your advise. i have not had a great deal of experience with it to be honest i guess time will tell

Mabe another thread ...

 

[Richard at Home]

Thanks Danny for your feedback

 

[jase158]

the thing I think he is trying to do is to just change a few bits of pipe and not the whole system, he is trying to do it on the cheap and do half a job.
what he is talking about is a massive job, usually done by ripping a whole system out and putting a whole new system in (unless you are lucky and can see all pipework and all rads are seperate, not teed off each other)

I have to be honest though and can not see it working at the moment, with a bit of work and careful thought, then yes it will work, but the OP is thinking the wrong way round.

But the best option is quite clearly to get the right kit and start from scratch

 

[AlexGas]

.....

 

[AlexGas]

......

 

[AlexGas]

There are not many tasks I have not undertaken...

Jack of all trades!?

 

[AlexGas]

Have you got one of this?

 

[Richard at Home]

the thing I think he is trying to do is to just change a few bits of pipe and not the whole system, he is trying to do it on the cheap and do half a job.
what he is talking about is a massive job, usually done by ripping a whole system out and putting a whole new system in (unless you are lucky and can see all pipework and all rads are seperate, not teed off each other)

I have to be honest though and can not see it working at the moment, with a bit of work and careful thought, then yes it will work, but the OP is thinking the wrong way round.

But the best option is quite clearly to get the right kit and start from scratch

Thanks for the feedback and yes i am talking about half a job.

I am not removing any radiators or the pipe work in the walls

Just the way the rads are connected together in the loft.

I am lucky all the rads are individual pipe back to the main 22mm runs so no to hard to do

So it is not a big job from my point of view just a layout change of the main 22mm runs.

To be honest the old pipe work up the loft ( That was nothing to do with me ) is a mess and even if i cut it all out and Re pipe it all to exactly the same layout it will be 100% improvement

Remember this was heating system that had a water tank that was Horizontal due to the low roof height and was 20+ years old with an old floor standing boiler in the kitchen.

Thanks everyone for your comments

Regards

Richard

 

[AlexGas]

Keep safe, Richard!

 

[Richard at Home]

I will do Alex and thank you.

 

[TBServices]

Can't believe this thread is still going. At best you'll have a system that doesn't work, at worst you'll create a new shower area in the middle of your bedroom, or melt your poor old dears with overheating.