Am I Re-Pressurising Boiler in the right way?

[Biilee]

My house has a Baxi Duo-tec Combi HE boiler which was fitted by BG about 5 years ago. Over the past year I have noticed that I have had to re-pressurise the boiler more frequently than in the past, typically once a month. I have re-pressurised the boiler by opening the 2 black taps (with yellow dots) you can see in the photo and then closing the taps once the pressure gauge has risen to show a reading between 1 and 2. &nbsp;Recently I happened to have a look at one of Baxi’s own How To videos on how to re-pressurise the boiler in which they show a flexible hose being connected to the pipework. I have not been using a flexible hose (filling loop) to re-pressurise the boiler, instead I simply have been opening and closing the black taps (with yellow dots). I am now wondering whether I should have used a flexible hose and if I have been doing something wrong by simply opening and closing the black taps (with yellow dots)?<br>

 

[Last Plumber]

My house has a Baxi Duo-tec Combi HE boiler which was fitted by BG about 5 years ago. Over the past year I have noticed that I have had to re-pressurise the boiler more frequently than in the past, typically once a month. I have re-pressurised the boiler by opening the 2 black taps (with yellow dots) you can see in the photo and then closing the taps once the pressure gauge has risen to show a reading between 1 and 2. *Recently I happened to have a look at one of Baxi’s own How To videos on how to re-pressurise the boiler in which they show a flexible hose being connected to the pipework. I have not been using a flexible hose (filling loop) to re-pressurise the boiler, instead I simply have been opening and closing the black taps (with yellow dots). I am now wondering whether I should have used a flexible hose and if I have been doing something wrong by simply opening and closing the black taps (with yellow dots)?<br>

You are fine to use the black taps ( with yellow dots).

 

[Biilee]

Thanks for your reply, Last Plumber. Would it matter in what order I open the black taps (with yellow dots)? Any thoughts on why it might be I've had to re-pressurise the boiler so frequently over recent months?

 

[townfanjon]

No , it doesn't matter what order you open and close, if you are toping a lot , you are obviously loosing water , this maybe the boiler its self , or the actual system , and leaks on radiators etc

 

[gassafe]

Topping up once amonth is too much... boiler is losing pressure somewhere... is the copper pipe outside dropping?
Does the pressure rise up above 2.5 bar when heating is on? Any leaks in or around radiator valves etc...

 

[Biilee]

Thank you for your reply. We’ve just had an engineer come out. We got the engineer to come out because 2 morning’s ago, after the boiler had been off overnight, it did not come on again in the morning, because the pressure was too low. I re-pressurised the boiler until the pressure gauge read between 1 and 2 and the boiler then came on, but shortly afterwards water started coming out continuously from the pressure relief valve outlet pipe. I looked at the pressure gauge and it was reading well into the red, beyond 3. After a few minutes, water stopped coming out of the outlet pipe, but the pressure gauge was still reading beyond 3. As the pressure was not going down and the temperature was still rising I opened one of the radiator bleed valves to let out some water from a radiator in order to reduce the pressure. I let out about 400 millilitres and the pressure gauge dropped to just under 2, so I closed the radiator bleed valve. The boiler then worked okay and the pressure gauge went down to mid-way between 1 and 2. The boiler worked okay for a few hours providing heating and hot water but later in the day it stopped working and when I looked at the pressure gauge the pressure was reading below 1 and the boiler would not come on again when I tried to reset it. I did not re-pressurise the boiler because it seemed to me that it should not need re-pressuring again with a few hours of having been re-pressurised and so there must be a fault, so I called an engineer out. Neither I nor the engineer could find any visible leaks. He pumped air into the expansion vessel. He also drained water out of the magnabooster, which came out clear. He drained approx. 2 to 3 litres of water through the magnabooster and put in 2 tubes of Fernox F4 into a ladder towel radiator. Also, he removed the pressure relief valve, inspected it and put it back on again. We don’t think that there was a slow drip from the pressure relief valve outlet pipe before his visit, but we’ve now got one. Since his visit a drip forms and falls about once a minute from the pressure relief valve outlet pipe. Is this drip likely to stop after a day or so, or is it likely to continue and possibly get worse and if so, should we call him back now? I’d be grateful for any advice.

Also, as he drained between 2 to 3 litres of water via the magnabooster, should he have replenished the inhibitor in the system or is the loss of inhibitor insignificant when around 3 litres of water is drained from the system? (He told us that the F4 that he put in the system also acts as an inhibitor but after looking it up on the Internet it doesn't look like F4 does act as an inhibitor.)

 

[Last Plumber]

From what You've said, it sounds like the expansion vessel either needed re-pressurising, replacing or the connection to it is blocked. I personally would have found the reason for the loss and not introduced F4.

The Prv may stop but I doubt it and as far as inhibitor goes, a few litres won't really make that much difference.

Was the vessel incorrectly set or did he not say ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would get the pressure blow off replace as once they open they never seal like new also would put some one inhb at the same time normal house about 2 bottle normally

do you know if any water came out when he tested the expansion vessel?

 

[Biilee]

The engineer re-pressurised the expansion vessel. He didn't say anything about the vessel being incorrectly set.

 

[Biilee]

I don't think any water came out of the expansion vessel when he tested it; I was watching him and didn't see any. Regarding your advice re getting the PRV replaced - we're under a BG service agreement, so if we phone and get one of their engineers to come out and tell them that the first engineer removed and inspected the PRV and since then the PRV outlet has been dripping are they likely to replace the PRV or do something else (that's perhaps not advisable) to avoid having to replace it? In other words, would we be better off getting someone else out to replace the PRV, independent of BG?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I don't think any water came out of the expansion vessel when he tested it; I was watching him and didn't see any. Regarding your advice re getting the PRV replaced - we're under a BG service agreement, so if we phone and get one of their engineers to come out and tell them that the first engineer removed and inspected the PRV and since then the PRV outlet has been dripping are they likely to replace the PRV or do something else (that's perhaps not advisable) to avoid having to replace it? In other words, would we be better off getting someone else out to replace the PRV, independent of BG?

Well no point in getting one out as your under bg pay monthly or scrap the contract and just put the money aside for repairs and get a local engy to do them and service every year

So either get them out and tell them the prv is leaking / pipe dripping outside

Or scrap the contract

 

[Biilee]

Our BG contract is for a year (paid in advance) and we have to pay £50 excess every time we call them out (unless we can prove that they didn't solve the original problem or their engineer, by removing and inspecting the PRV, caused the PRV to malfunction; also, he hit something with a hammer, which may have been the PRV, but I'm not sure as I couldn't see what he was hitting). As the latter would be hard for us to prove, I just didn't want to pay out yet another £50 for BG to come out if it's likely they could take some cheaper option to replacing the PRV. The alternative would be for us to put the £50 toward calling out an independent engineer specifically to replace the PRV.

 

[Last Plumber]

Our BG contract is for a year (paid in advance) and we have to pay £50 excess every time we call them out (unless we can prove that they didn't solve the original problem or their engineer, by removing and inspecting the PRV, caused the PRV to malfunction; also, he hit something with a hammer, which may have been the PRV, but I'm not sure as I couldn't see what he was hitting). As the latter would be hard for us to prove, I just didn't want to pay out yet another £50 for BG to come out if it's likely they could take some cheaper option to replacing the PRV. The alternative would be for us to put the £50 toward calling out an independent engineer specifically to replace the PRV.

Be firm, Get them back, it isn't finished with, obviously and you have paid enough. Hammers do not have a place inside boilers !!!!!!

 

[joni os]

Definitely get BG back, they haven't sorted the problem. Could be necessary to replace both expansion vessel and pressure relief valve. Be firm, the on going problem is," loss of pressure", and you shouldn't be paying an extra £50. to have them back.
When they tell you a power flush is needed to continue cover find a local engineer and don't renew contract.

 

[Biilee]

Thanks, we'll get BG back. Can I ask why they would tell us to have a power flush in order to continue to provide cover and what would be wrong with consenting to this? - Would it be a question of this being unnecessary and them just trying to make more money out of us and/or trying to avoid replacing the expansion vessel and/or PRV? (Our combi system was put in 5 years ago by BG. The system was converted at that time from a gravity system to a combi system using the existing radiators and pipework, with just one new rad being put in our dining room where we didn't have one before. It was given a power flush at the time after which Fernox F1 was put in.)

 

[Radioman]

BG engineers get a bonus for selling power flushes.

 

[joni os]

BG are renown for advising power flush and/or trying to sell new boiler, when system and boiler could be repaired. The fact they have sold you a service contract for boiler, that should be repaired free, in a normal warranty period demonstrates their commercial practices. Unfortunately people without cash in the bank use them, having repayments added to fuel bills, as a means of finance. Anyone with money in the bank should consider alternative quotes and the extended warranties now available. Your strength is they did the work including power flush 5 years previous. Make sure they conform with their obligations.

 

[Biilee]

How could we show that we don't need a power flush? Would getting a report from Fernox help prove it? Or are BG likely to take no notice of that and discontinue our cover anyway if we were to challenge their recommendation and not have a power flush?

 

[joni os]

As BG did original install with power flush and have been under service contract since, if they suggest another power flush it would be admission their works were inadequate and you should dispute it on that basis. Just mentioning power flush done by BG to the engineer who visits will probably deter them from going down that path. If you haven't got a magnetic filter expect them to sell you one. None of this relates to your original problem, "Loss of Pressure".
Mentioned power flush, only to forewarn you in case engineer goes into sales mode.