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MickH

Hi all.

The local authority have just installed a new central heating system but I'm not sure if they have done things right?

We noticed that downstairs is a lot cooler than prior to the new system being installed but we put it down to the pipes being run up the walls behind trunking rather than under the floorboards as was the old layout. We have to put the boiler on full power to feel any real benefits but this is obviously crippling the gas bills!

However, I found a worksheet left behind by the plumbers with a few figures on that I find intriguing. The combined Radiator Output for downstairs is rated at 2501 whilst upstairs it is rated as 4343. I'm no plumber but I do know that heat rises so are we paying more to warm the loft up?

Also, the Radiators upstairs are DC whilst down they are SC.

Does this sound right to you pro's or should we get them out again to swap the radiators around?

Thanks guys.

MickH
 
It looks to me as if they have confused upstairs with downstairs and I agree that it does look wrong.

I was looking for clarification before I set out about them on Monday :)

Thanks.

MickH
 
I would of said doubles downstairs and singles upstairs all depends on heat loss sizing eg bigger windows upstairs etc
 
fireblade said:
I would of said doubles downstairs and singles upstairs all depends on heat loss sizing eg bigger windows upstairs etc
Click to expand...

Windows DG and - give or take an inch or two all the same size. The only thing that I can think of as to why they fitted DC upstairs is the windowsills are lower but surely a single would suffice for rooms that we only sleep in?

MickH
 
Does sound like sombody got it wrong I would of rather carried singles upstairs anyway:)
 
I've attached the data sheet I found. Does it all look as it should?
 

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MickH said:
I've attached the data sheet I found. Does it all look as it should?
Click to expand...
They only thing I would query are the design temperatures.

Bedrooms should be 18C, not 22C
Bathrooms should be 22C not 18C

The ground floor rads give of about 20% more than required and the first floor about 25% more. This is OK as the TRVs - I hope they have fitted TRVs on all rads but the one where the wall stat is located - will prevent the room over heating.

Which boiler have they fitted (make and exact model)?
Did they balance the system?
 
doitmyself said:
They only thing I would query are the design temperatures.

Bedrooms should be 18C, not 22C
Bathrooms should be 22C not 18C

The ground floor rads give of about 20% more than required and the first floor about 25% more. This is OK as the TRVs - I hope they have fitted TRVs on all rads but the one where the wall stat is located - will prevent the room over heating.

Which boiler have they fitted (make and exact model)?
Did they balance the system?
Click to expand...

Yes TRV's are fitted on all rads but even fully open the lounge is very chilly unless we set the boiler temp to 80!

The boiler is a Potterton Promax Combi 28 HE A.

MickH
 
MickH said:
Yes TRV's are fitted on all rads but even fully open the lounge is very chilly unless we set the boiler temp to 80!

The boiler is a Potterton Promax Combi 28 HE A.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that there is no thermostat on the wall in the living room or the hall and that all rads have TRVs? If so, the system does not comply with current minimum requirements.

The sheet you posted earlier shows a total heating requirement of 6.84W. You can check this by using either Sedbuk Boiler Calculator or [DLMURL="http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/business/Business/Building-Professionals/Helpful-Tools/Whole-house-boiler-sizing-wizard"]EST online boiler calculator[/DLMURL].

You should deduct 2kW from the result to get a true comparison with the 6.84kW on your sheet. This because the calculators allow 2kW for hot water.

Incidentally I see that the sheet allows 3kW for hot water. You only need to do this if you have a hot water cylinder. As you have a combi boiler this is unnecessary as the boiler is sized for hot water requirement.

If your heating requirement is only 6.84kW, this is well above the minimum output of your boiler of 8.7kW. This means the boiler will be continually cycling. If the boiler is continually lighting up, running for a few minutes, stopping, waiting for three minutes and then the starting again, then it is cycling.

What temperature is the boiler normally set to?

If you feel the pipes at each end of the rad, is there a noticeable temperature difference and is it the same for all radiators?

It sounds as if the council have gone out to tender and accepted the lowest price, without ensuring that the system meets current standards or the actual requirements of the property.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi, There are heating calcs on line. Why not put a few figures in, of the room sizes you have and use. This should give a better understanding of your dilemma. Good Luck
 
You could ask them to produce the heat loss calculations for your property which they should have used to determine the size of rads & boiler required....
 
doitmyself said:
Are you saying that there is no thermostat on the wall in the living room or the hall and that all rads have TRVs? If so, the system does not comply with current minimum requirements.

The sheet you posted earlier shows a total heating requirement of 6.84W. You can check this by using either Sedbuk Boiler Calculator or [DLMURL="http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/business/Business/Building-Professionals/Helpful-Tools/Whole-house-boiler-sizing-wizard"]EST online boiler calculator[/DLMURL].

You should deduct 2kW from the result to get a true comparison with the 6.84kW on your sheet. This because the calculators allow 2kW for hot water.

Incidentally I see that the sheet allows 3kW for hot water. You only need to do this if you have a hot water cylinder. As you have a combi boiler this is unnecessary as the boiler is sized for hot water requirement.

If your heating requirement is only 6.84kW, this is well above the minimum output of your boiler of 8.7kW. This means the boiler will be continually cycling. If the boiler is continually lighting up, running for a few minutes, stopping, waiting for three minutes and then the starting again, then it is cycling.

What temperature is the boiler normally set to?

If you feel the pipes at each end of the rad, is there a noticeable temperature difference and is it the same for all radiators?

It sounds as if the council have gone out to tender and accepted the lowest price, without ensuring that the system meets current standards or the actual requirements of the property.
Click to expand...

A lot of that went over my head pal lol

There is no TRV in the hallway which is also the place were the thermostat is.

The radiators pipes feel the same everywhere except the bathroom which has to be bled every month without fail :(

The cycling you mentioned is exactly how it works here. It kicks in for a few minutes, switches off for a few minutes then kicks in again. We thought that was normal?

And the boiler is usually set to 55 (for rads not water).

Thanks.

MickH
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MickH said:
.

And the boiler is usually set to 55 (for rads not water)

MickH
Click to expand...
Your boiler temp is much too low, radiator manufactures quoted outputs are calculated on water temp of 75C - 80C
Martin.
 
MickH said:
A lot of that went over my head pal lol
Click to expand...
Read it again! It's not that complicated.;) If you still don't get it, post which bits you don't understand and I will try to explain.

There is no TRV in the hallway which is also the place were the thermostat is.
Click to expand...
Good

The radiators pipes feel the same everywhere except the bathroom which has to be bled every month without fail
Click to expand...
You should be able to feel a difference between the two rad pipes.

the boiler is usually set to 55 (for rads not water).
Click to expand...
Who told you to set it to such a low temperature. It needs to go up to about 70. That explains why you are not getting warm - the radiators are not giving off enough heat because the water flowing through then is not hot enough.

As for cycling, provided the boiler is working somewhere between the maximum and minimum outputs the cycling should be minimal. It's when the required output is less than the minimum that the boiler will start cycling.
 
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