Which Worcester Bosch Boiler For Our Home? Please Help!

[Bazzy]

Hi All,

We may need to replace our boiler - the OLDER version Worcester Bosch 35Cdi (see images attached)

1. Our home is a 1920's Semi
2. 5 Bedrooms
3. 2 Bathrooms
4. 5 x Large (1800mm) Double Panel Radiators
5. 1 x Large (1800mm) Single Panel Radiator
6. 3 x Medium (1400mm) Double Panel Radiators
7. 2 x Short Height Double Panel 1400mm Radiators
8. 3 x Bathroom Towel Radiators

We had a WB Engineer come round to try & fix the boiler but said parts were no longer available & recommended that we upgrade to the 42Cdi - he said this model will allow use to run as many hot water devices as we wish without one area losing out over another.

After he left, the boiler started leaking again so another WB Engineer came round & he was strongly recommending the 29Cdi Classic (insisted that we choose the Classic version).

Both are highly trained WB Professionals who know their stuff but I am a bit confused as to which one to believe since they both recommended two very different models so am wondering if anyone here can really help me out on which from the WB range is really best for our home?

I was surprised that the 2nd Engineer strongly recommended a much smaller capacity model than the one we currently have as from what little I know, is that one has to either maintain the size you have to ensure good performance or go for as bigger/next model up to allow fro extra headroom so the boiler does not have to work as hard? I may be totally wrong on this as I am a novice hence coming here for advice.

The 1st Engineer may have recommended the 42CDi as he believed that would service the size of our home best & the 2nd one might have recommended the 29Cdi instead as it has been over 15 years since we have had our current boiler & advances in boiler technology in this time might mean that these days a smaller capacity boiler may well be able to do the same job as a bigger one from yester-year - I do not know but I do believe Engineers were being sincere with their advice.

Please can anyone recommend ANY Combi Boiler from the WB Range that would best suit our needs? I do not know how boiler size & capacity affects things like energy use & how it affects bills - I do not want a small boiler that takes longer to do things & hence uses more energy meaning more running & energy costs but am worried that the same might then also apply to getting a much bigger one - i.e. - it uses more energy than actually needed, hence higher costs etc?

Flow rate is important since we have two bathrooms - my kitchen tap delivers about 17L/min & the 29Cdi delivers about 11L/min & the 42Cdi 16L/min if that has any bearing?

Finally, I read somewhere that if one has two bathrooms and/or a bigger property, instead of a Combi Boiler, one should also consider a System Boiler? I have no idea what the latter is & not being technical, get somewhat bemused by all this so can anyone explain what they are & if they might be a better option for us?

Would really welcome & be exceptionally grateful for any help/advice on which WB Boiler is best for our home!

Many Kind Thanks,
Bazzy.

 

[SimonG]

System boiler and unvented cylinder if water pressures and flow allow.

oh and not a Worcester botch.

 

[Bazzy]

Hi SimonG,

I will have to look into exactly what System Boiler & Unvented Cylinder is - how does it differ from a Combi Boiler may I ask? Is it all in one unit like a Combi or does it have lots of separate bits etc? Will there be lots of extra pipe work needed & will anything be have to be placed in the loft etc? It will be very difficult indeed for us to run new pipes etc from say the loft to elsewhere in the house.

What sort of water pressures & flow are required then for this option please?

May I ask why not a Worcester Bosch? I really know nothing about boilers but the reason the owner of the house wants to stick with WB is that when ever things have gone wrong with the current boiler, WB have been really great in getting it sorted - they can arrive usually within a day or so, usually always sort out the problems & their engineers have always acted very professionally regardless of who over all these years. It is this peace of mind that the owner really values with WB - they are round very quickly & always sort the problems out.

Do any other brands offer the same/similar? We usually have some sort of Boiler Servicing Contract.

Are there issues with WB that I must obviously be unaware of then that you good folks in the trade know about?

What brands & models would you recommend then for our home please?


Many Thanks,
Bazzy.

 

[Riley]

Combi boilers are not designed to run multiple outlets. A system boiler and invented would give you best results at multiple outlets. Service contracts are pointless in my humble opinion most decent manufacturers offer a decent warranty these days on the proviso that that an annual service is carried out. Employ a local independent engineer to fit it and maintain it for you. Worcester are not what they were. For my money Vaillant/Glowworm

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Viessmann 222 at a min

 

[gmartine]

How did you find your old boilers performance when running two bathrooms?

 

[Bazzy]

How did you find your old boilers performance when running two bathrooms?

Hi gmartine,

I cannot say for certain with two bathrooms running but on the whole it was not too bad really - there were lots of times when someone would be having a shower & either the washing machine, Dishwasher and/or other hot water taps were in use at the same time & although there was a flow drop, it was just about acceptable for the short times the other hot water taps etc were on.

Hope that helps!
Bazzy.

 

[Riley]

Don’t do combi you’d be so much happier with unvented

 

[Bazzy]

Don’t do combi you’d be so much happier with unvented

Hi Riley,

Can you please kindly give me some suitable examples of this unvented system so I can have a look & learn from - I am totally clueless about these things & have no idea what to look for & what might be any good.

Many Thanks,
Bazzy.

 

[Riley]

It’s a boiler and hot water cylinder set up but at a good pressure and flow rate as long as incoming mains allows

 

[Bazzy]

It’s a boiler and hot water cylinder set up but at a good pressure and flow rate as long as incoming mains allows

Hi Riley,

Thanks for that - so there is a boiler part which hangs on the wall like the 35Cdi we have & a separate tank cylinder which stores hot water?

Where is the cylinder installed may I ask? Next to the boiler or in the loft?

All I know is our kitchen cold water tap produces about 17L/Min - is that good enough pressure & flow rate?

Do you know how much these systems would cost & is this unvented type the same as a "System Boiler"?

One of the WB Engineers informed me about one of their floor-standing boilers with a hot water tank - I think it was a 440 or 550 model - is that the same thing as this unvented system or system boiler?

Many Thanks,
Bazzy

 

[Watermargin]

Hi i have a fully functioning 35cdi cw flue if your interested. Reason i kept it back was because it is a great boiler. Twin pumps and all that.

 

[Bazzy]

Hi i have a fully functioning 35cdi cw flue if your interested. Reason i kept it back was because it is a great boiler. Twin pumps and all that.

Hi,

Is it new or used may I ask? Is there any warranty on it & where in the UK are you please?

I am doing my best to research boilers/options at the moment but for me, it is proving to be very daunting as I am just not knowledgeable enough about the various differences in brands & stuff that those in the trade might know.

I know a few here have suggested an unvented system boiler with a separate tank but I really doubt that my home has/meets the absolute minimum required parameters to consider a unvented system boiler - I saw a video where someone in the trade stated that the absolute minimum incoming water flow must be at least 20L/mim but preferably much higher - mine is only 17L/min with the crude timed test I did. I have no idea what the water pressure is to my home but will try & get someone to check it for me - the person on the video said it must be an absolute minimum of 1.5 bar.

If my place is unsuitable for these system boilers with a tank, then I am assuming my only option is to be stuck with a Combi?

Many Thanks,
Bazzy.

 

[Watermargin]

Hi again mine is old but you could easily swap out your existing no pipework change as is exactly the same. If you are investing in new system then i like and am biased towards worcester. I would of thought a 35cdi classic system boiler with a unvented cylinder would be great would gibe you mains pressure hot water however this is a lot of parts and install could cost well over 5000. Combis great but not brilliant when you have multiple bathrooms as flow is 16l a minute at best.

 

[Bazzy]

Hi again mine is old but you could easily swap out your existing no pipework change as is exactly the same. If you are investing in new system then i like and am biased towards worcester. I would of thought a 35cdi classic system boiler with a unvented cylinder would be great would gibe you mains pressure hot water however this is a lot of parts and install could cost well over 5000. Combis great but not brilliant when you have multiple bathrooms as flow is 16l a minute at best.

Hi,

Whereabouts are you please & how much for the boiler? Any warranty left on it that is transferable?

I assume your a Gas Safe Registered Plumber & that it has been fully serviced in the time that you have had it?

How much would it cost to have the old one removed & yours put in? I am assuming it is the newer model of 35Cdi & not the older version like mine?

Many Thanks,
Bazzy.

 

[Old Account]

Me personally i would either go with a system boiler and an unvented cylinder if it was suitable. if you were going ahead with an unvented cylinder i would choose the Vaillant green IQ 627 and a Vaillant uniSTORE. Let it run via the Vsmart and you will have a very efficient central heating and hot water system.

Or

Vaillant combi storage boiler. I know many people would say it won’t be ideal etc. But based on my experience the ecotec plus 938 is a combi storage boiler which has a built in storage. It is designed for larger homes with a bigger hot water demand. It saves space and combined with the Vsmart it will Safe you Loads on your annual gas bill.

 

[Bazzy]

Me personally i would either go with a system boiler and an unvented cylinder if it was suitable. if you were going ahead with an unvented cylinder i would choose the Vaillant green IQ 627 and a Vaillant uniSTORE. Let it run via the Vsmart and you will have a very efficient central heating and hot water system.

Or

Vaillant combi storage boiler. I know many people would say it won’t be ideal etc. But based on my experience the ecotec plus 938 is a combi storage boiler which has a built in storage. It is designed for larger homes with a bigger hot water demand. It saves space and combined with the Vsmart it will Safe you Loads on your annual gas bill.

Hi!

Thank you so very much - as a complete novice & not knowing the differences between one brand & another and all the important stuff in between, this was just the type of excellent feedback & suggestions I was looking for - it is extremely helpful so huge thanks!

As many here did not seem keen on WB, I have been considering options from:

Valliant
Viessmann
ATAG
Intergas

& Possibly Baxi 636 - Allen Hart From YouTube rates them quite high as well as Ideal Vogue.

What I have learnt is to try a get a boiler with the least amount of plastic as possible - all brass fittings & a SS Heat Exchanger.

The other things that are really important are the warranty length & terms & customer service - I would want 10 years minimum & great customer service.

I have read in a few places that Valliant make great boilers but the Customer Service can be a very hit/miss affair - can you possibly shed some light on this? I read the same about Ideal as well which kind of puts me off.

How do Valliant stack up against Viessmann, ATAG & Intergas in your opinion? To a novice, they all sound great but I do not know what the issues/problems might be - especially with things like costs of parts, annual servicing & customer service - WB was great in this regard - had engineers round very quickly so would like something similar.

I will most definitely ask the Plumber/Installer to check if a System Boiler/Unvented Type is an option for us but if it is not, then what choice do I have apart from a Combi?

I have a Installer that was recommended by Valliant themselves coming round next week to give an assessment so I will see what he says & also mention the options you have stated & get back to you. Out of interest, how much would the two systems you mentioned cost to supply & install so I have an idea?

I may also call in approved installers from the other companies mentioned especially Viessmann/ATAG/Intergas as these seem most highly regarded along with Valliant or am I wrong about this?

Many Huge Thanks,
Bazzy!

 

[Old Account]

Hi Bazzy,

If you ask 10 plumbers you will most likely get 10 different boiler models

However, I can safely say that you ant go wrong with Vaillant boilers.

An acreddited Vaillant Installer can supply 10 years of warranty that can be achieved via fitting the Vaillant proctection kit or you can buy it.
I would always go with the protection kit which is a brass magnetic filter to keep the central heating clean.

The aftercare is top notch never had any problem with Vaillant. I can highly recommend them.

The parts inside the green IQ 627 are brass and Stainless steel but not to forget at the end of its life the boiler can be recycled to 85%

The combi storage has the same brass and stainless steel parts.

Me personally I would go with baxi, biasi, ideal but that’s my personal opinion.


Vaillant
Viessman

These are the ones I would go with. Vaillant is market leader so I hope that will answer your question in regards to “ how do Vaillant stack up against ....”

Both viessman or Vaillant are great boilers. If you had the space I probably would choose the green IQ 627 with a cylinder.

The boilers I mentioned are bale to modulate which means these boiler wont use the full amount of kilo watts if they do not require. For instance in the summer you may need 4-5kw to heat the hot water that means you will Safe a lot on your gas bill.

These are very quiet running boilers. My personal heart is with Vaillant but if you ask some other engineers you may get different opinions.

If you want something good ( Vaillant or viessmann).

About the prices I cannot give you an answer as it depends on many factors.
Where you based ?

 

[Aire]

I love how everyone has all jumped to the conclusion op must go for a system boiler and unvented cylinder. How does anyone know if one is suitable for the house? Let's not forget there is already and has been fitted for a long time a combi boiler that will no where near match the outputs of current models on the market and will be alot cheaper to install than an unvented setup.

Bazzy personally i would say a combi will work fine, the vaillant 843 for example has nearly 18 litres of hot water a minute which is impressive and will be a massive improvement on what you currently have fitted (yours is rated to between 12 and 13.5). May need an upgraded gas feed to what's currently feeding your boiler but that should be easily sorted.

You also mention the worcester highflow 550cdi, these are floor standing combi boilers which have a heat store (basically a mini cylinder in the boiler) which provide great flow rates of up to 25 litres a minute, when you run your hot tap, similar to a combi, the boiler fires up but instead of taking water directly from the plate heat exchanger, you get water from both the plate and the heat store so your able to have a much greater flow rate of hot water. That is however until the heat store is depleted and needs reheating which you then only take hot water from the plate so your flow will be reduced.

It all depends on how much demand you have for hot water, you have 2 bathrooms but how often are both bathrooms used at the same time?

As for boiler brand, most good manufactures now offer good warranties but check reviews on how good the warranties actually are, ideal for example offer up to 12 years but from what I've heard (not personal experience) they will find any get out they can not to fix the boiler under warranty. Baxi are apparently no quible but again that's only what I've heard.

Id get a few local installers to come have a look and see what they say, it's always good to get as many opinions as possible and then do your research as to what you think works best for you.

 

[Old Account]

I love how everyone has all jumped to the conclusion op must go for a system boiler and unvented cylinder. How does anyone know if one is suitable for the house? Let's not forget there is already and has been fitted for a long time a combi boiler that will no where near match the outputs of current models on the market and will be alot cheaper to install than an unvented setup.

Bazzy personally i would say a combi will work fine, the vaillant 843 for example has nearly 18 litres of hot water a minute which is impressive and will be a massive improvement on what you currently have fitted (yours is rated to between 12 and 13.5). May need an upgraded gas feed to what's currently feeding your boiler but that should be easily sorted.

You also mention the worcester highflow 550cdi, these are floor standing combi boilers which have a heat store (basically a mini cylinder in the boiler) which provide great flow rates of up to 25 litres a minute, when you run your hot tap, similar to a combi, the boiler fires up but instead of taking water directly from the plate heat exchanger, you get water from both the plate and the heat store so your able to have a much greater flow rate of hot water. That is however until the heat store is depleted and needs reheating which you then only take hot water from the plate so your flow will be reduced.

It all depends on how much demand you have for hot water, you have 2 bathrooms but how often are both bathrooms used at the same time?

As for boiler brand, most good manufactures now offer good warranties but check reviews on how good the warranties actually are, ideal for example offer up to 12 years but from what I've heard (not personal experience) they will find any get out they can not to fix the boiler under warranty. Baxi are apparently no quible but again that's only what I've heard.

Id get a few local installers to come have a look and see what they say, it's always good to get as many opinions as possible and then do your research as to what you think works best for you.

I do not know if you have read my post but I have mentioned not just boiler but two. One of the two I recommended was the Vaillant 938 combi storage boiler which is designed for larger homes with higher hot water demand. The boiler itself is not the cheapest but worth every single penny. Furthermore I suggested an unvented system ( uniSTORE) IF is suitable which means the op needs to get an engineers out to discuss their possibilities. And yes if I was him I might want something like an unvented cylinder with the Vaillant green IQ which again isn’t the cheapest but definitely highly efficient. The boiler is able to modulate between 3.4kw and 26.7kw in condensing mode which absolutely amazing. Furthermore it has a built in 3 way valve which doesn’t need any nasty zone valves, junction boxes or complex wiring. That designed with a great Vsmart which works on weather compensation is the system I would want in uk if I had 2 bathrooms and more. I also mentioned that everybody has got their favourite brand. I. Do not think that either one of my suggestions is wrong. Both options are incredibly energy saving and worth the money. The cheaper option would be the 938 as he doesn’t need the cylinder.

 

[Bazzy]

Hi Bazzy,

If you ask 10 plumbers you will most likely get 10 different boiler models

However, I can safely say that you ant go wrong with Vaillant boilers.

An acreddited Vaillant Installer can supply 10 years of warranty that can be achieved via fitting the Vaillant proctection kit or you can buy it.
I would always go with the protection kit which is a brass magnetic filter to keep the central heating clean.

The aftercare is top notch never had any problem with Vaillant. I can highly recommend them.

The parts inside the green IQ 627 are brass and Stainless steel but not to forget at the end of its life the boiler can be recycled to 85%

The combi storage has the same brass and stainless steel parts.

Me personally I would go with baxi, biasi, ideal but that’s my personal opinion.


Vaillant
Viessman

These are the ones I would go with. Vaillant is market leader so I hope that will answer your question in regards to “ how do Vaillant stack up against ..”

Both viessman or Vaillant are great boilers. If you had the space I probably would choose the green IQ 627 with a cylinder.

The boilers I mentioned are bale to modulate which means these boiler wont use the full amount of kilo watts if they do not require. For instance in the summer you may need 4-5kw to heat the hot water that means you will Safe a lot on your gas bill.

These are very quiet running boilers. My personal heart is with Vaillant but if you ask some other engineers you may get different opinions.

If you want something good ( Vaillant or viessmann).

About the prices I cannot give you an answer as it depends on many factors.
Where you based ?

Hi Matchless Plumb!

Thanks again for the really great info & confirming Valliant have great aftercare service - that really gives peace of mind!
I presume you meant to say that you would NOT personally go with a Baxi/Ideal etc? I know this may sound bad coming from a total neophyte like me but there is something about them that puts me off!

It seems that Valliant & Viessmann are the most highly regarded so will concentrate on these two brands then - as not many have mentioned either ATAG or Intergas. Also if Valliant/Viessmann are more prevalent then it makes me question how much more expensive parts/servicing might be on an ATAG/Intergas if their network is not as big.

I am so grateful I was able to learn about this modulating issue as I had no idea about it & it certainly sounds like it is a very important feature to have!

I am based in NW London & called Valliant - they got in touch & one of their approved installers is coming round this week to assess things.

Do I have to now buy from them if I get a Valliant or can I shop around & get second opinions & compare prices as they say always get 3 quotes - I am happy to pay for a proper qualified & vetted professional but also do not want to pay over the odds! I am very weary of contacting plumbers from my local Gumtree as I have read some horror stories of shady folks using fake credentials & paperwork!

How can I, as a novice determine if any prices quoted are competitive/reasonable?

I went onto the Vallaint website but it seems there are two versions of Eco Plus models - is the 938 the best/top one may I ask? How big is the storage tank in it?

On a couple of other points - I have already bought a brand new Filter - a Fernox Omega - can I have this fitted instead of the older version Spirotech one that Valliant offer as part of their protection kit & still get the 10 years warranty?

Must I also have a Power Flush Done as well to get the full 10 year warranty? Reason I ask, is our Rads are really old as is all our pipework which is under the floorboards & we have solid flooring & I am concerned that a power flush may cause leaks or splits at weak joints at pipes under floorboards etc & that would be a nightmare to deal with. Could I instead, opt for say New Radiators throughout the house & have a chemical clean/gentle flush instead? How much would any installer charge for a power flush anyway?

You have been great so again, I really am deeply grateful & appreciative!

Many Kind Thanks!
Bazzy!

 

[Bazzy]

I love how everyone has all jumped to the conclusion op must go for a system boiler and unvented cylinder. How does anyone know if one is suitable for the house? Let's not forget there is already and has been fitted for a long time a combi boiler that will no where near match the outputs of current models on the market and will be alot cheaper to install than an unvented setup.

Bazzy personally i would say a combi will work fine, the vaillant 843 for example has nearly 18 litres of hot water a minute which is impressive and will be a massive improvement on what you currently have fitted (yours is rated to between 12 and 13.5). May need an upgraded gas feed to what's currently feeding your boiler but that should be easily sorted.

You also mention the worcester highflow 550cdi, these are floor standing combi boilers which have a heat store (basically a mini cylinder in the boiler) which provide great flow rates of up to 25 litres a minute, when you run your hot tap, similar to a combi, the boiler fires up but instead of taking water directly from the plate heat exchanger, you get water from both the plate and the heat store so your able to have a much greater flow rate of hot water. That is however until the heat store is depleted and needs reheating which you then only take hot water from the plate so your flow will be reduced.

It all depends on how much demand you have for hot water, you have 2 bathrooms but how often are both bathrooms used at the same time?

As for boiler brand, most good manufactures now offer good warranties but check reviews on how good the warranties actually are, ideal for example offer up to 12 years but from what I've heard (not personal experience) they will find any get out they can not to fix the boiler under warranty. Baxi are apparently no quible but again that's only what I've heard.

Id get a few local installers to come have a look and see what they say, it's always good to get as many opinions as possible and then do your research as to what you think works best for you.

Hi Craig,

Much thanks to you for the great & helpful info as well - deeply appreciated! As mentioned before, I have no idea if an Unvented System Boiler with a Cylinder will work in our home - I will get the Vallaint Approved Plumber to advise & let you know!

Thanks for confirming that IF a System Boiler/Cylinder is not suitable for our home then a Modern Combi should work fine (what other choice would I really have anyway?!) & for letting me know about the Valliant 843 - I will look into this one too - how does it compare to the Eco Plus 938 with VSmart as recommended? Does it also have the modulating feature as that sounds very beneficial!

Thanks for educating me on the WB 440/550 - so it is like a Valliant Eco Plus 938 which also has a water storage tank but only a bigger one & so it is a bigger washing machine size floor standing model? I am wondering if it might be overkill for our property or is it an option even though it is a WB which seems as a brand to have fallen out of favour with many it seems?

My Mum sadly passed away not so long ago & there were always lots of people in the house spending time with her & so making good/high demand of the hot water but now there are only 3 of us ( for how long, who knows!) so it may not be such an issue if two people cannot shower at the same time tbh BUT, if possible, I would like it where say if someone is taking a shower & a hot water tap or resource is used elsewhere, the water flow at the shower does not drop too much & that it then does not get dangerously scalding hot when it does! Having said that, I do prefer a very strong & powerful showering experience!

I will start looking into local installers as well - as long as they are Gas Registered should they be able to install any brand of boiler then? Do the ones on the approved list from the various brands that they send out to you charge more then?

Thanks for letting me know about possibly needing an upgraded gas feed - what exactly is this so I can check with any installers what we currently have & if it is needed?

Any idea of what for example an Eco Plus 938 / 843 would cost to buy & install?

I would probably get one of those new smart thermostat things like Nest/Hive etc or do I not need one with the Valliant VSmart? Currently, we only have a very old Honeywell manual thermostat with simple round temperature dial.

Just another question - I see that there are installers who seem to only install say one brand of boiler & then there are others who on their website state they can supply & fit many different brands - is it safer/better to go with the former once any brand of boiler has been chosen or as long as they are Gas Safe Registered, should it not matter & go for the one that gives a good balance of both advice & price - not necessarily the very cheapest?

Very Many Thanks!
Bazzy!

 

[Aire]

Hi Craig,

Much thanks to you for the great & helpful info as well - deeply appreciated! As mentioned before, I have no idea if an Unvented System Boiler with a Cylinder will work in our home - I will get the Vallaint Approved Plumber to advise & let you know!

Thanks for confirming that IF a System Boiler/Cylinder is not suitable for our home then a Modern Combi should work fine (what other choice would I really have anyway?!) & for letting me know about the Valliant 843 - I will look into this one too - how does it compare to the Eco Plus 938 with VSmart as recommended? Does it also have the modulating feature as that sounds very beneficial!

Thanks for educating me on the WB 440/550 - so it is like a Valliant Eco Plus 938 which also has a water storage tank but only a bigger one & so it is a bigger washing machine size floor standing model? I am wondering if it might be overkill for our property or is it an option even though it is a WB which seems as a brand to have fallen out of favour with many it seems?

My Mum sadly passed away not so long ago & there were always lots of people in the house spending time with her & so making good/high demand of the hot water but now there are only 3 of us ( for how long, who knows!) so it may not be such an issue if two people cannot shower at the same time tbh BUT, if possible, I would like it where say if someone is taking a shower & a hot water tap or resource is used elsewhere, the water flow at the shower does not drop too much & that it then does not get dangerously scalding hot when it does! Having said that, I do prefer a very strong & powerful showering experience!

I will start looking into local installers as well - as long as they are Gas Registered should they be able to install any brand of boiler then? Do the ones on the approved list from the various brands that they send out to you charge more then?

Thanks for letting me know about possibly needing an upgraded gas feed - what exactly is this so I can check with any installers what we currently have & if it is needed?

Any idea of what for example an Eco Plus 938 / 843 would cost to buy & install?

I would probably get one of those new smart thermostat things like Nest/Hive etc or do I not need one with the Valliant VSmart? Currently, we only have a very old Honeywell manual thermostat with simple round temperature dial.

Just another question - I see that there are installers who seem to only install say one brand of boiler & then there are others who on their website state they can supply & fit many different brands - is it safer/better to go with the former once any brand of boiler has been chosen or as long as they are Gas Safe Registered, should it not matter & go for the one that gives a good balance of both advice & price - not necessarily the very cheapest?

Very Many Thanks!
Bazzy!

In terms of boiler, the 938 and 843 are very similar in outputs with the 938 offering slightly more hot flow rate. Both are fully modulating so you won't use more gas than your house requires and both work with vsmart.


The vsmart isn't required for the boiler but if your looking at hive/nest then you'd be better going for the vsmart as they will work best with your boiler as that's what they're designed for.

As for cost I can't say, you can look at boiler prices online and compare the difference between the two, I couldn't comment on total job cost because id only be guessing and prices up north where I am will differ to those down south.

For your gas size it all depends where the meter is in relation to the boiler. You'll likely have a 22mm supply already your boiler or should be 22mm fairly close to it. This may need upgrading from the meter in 28mm to achieve satisfactory pressure drop across the installation but your installer will advise you against this.

The wb 440/550 is a big washing machine size boiler, basically has a bigger heat store so can offer more flow, also more expensive but as for whether it's overkill comes down to your circumstances, they are generally for heavy hot water demand and like I said personally I think you'll be fine with one of the above mentioned combis. I also wouldn't say Worcester have fallen out of favour, I used to install alot of them but I've since moved to vaillant and just prefer them, that's all.

As for gas fitters, any installer can fit any boiler, most will have their preferred manufacturers to work with and the only difference between an approved and non approved is amount of warranty you get. Vaillant offer 5 years as standard and then either 7 or 10 years depending on mode and fitted by an approved installer.

The only way you'll know if your been charged a fair price is by getting different quotes, if they're all in a similar area you know it's right.

 

[Rob Foster]

Hi All,

We may need to replace our boiler - the OLDER version Worcester Bosch 35Cdi (see images attached)

1. Our home is a 1920's Semi
2. 5 Bedrooms
3. 2 Bathrooms
4. 5 x Large (1800mm) Double Panel Radiators
5. 1 x Large (1800mm) Single Panel Radiator
6. 3 x Medium (1400mm) Double Panel Radiators
7. 2 x Short Height Double Panel 1400mm Radiators
8. 3 x Bathroom Towel Radiators

We had a WB Engineer come round to try & fix the boiler but said parts were no longer available & recommended that we upgrade to the 42Cdi - he said this model will allow use to run as many hot water devices as we wish without one area losing out over another.

After he left, the boiler started leaking again so another WB Engineer came round & he was strongly recommending the 29Cdi Classic (insisted that we choose the Classic version).

Both are highly trained WB Professionals who know their stuff but I am a bit confused as to which one to believe since they both recommended two very different models so am wondering if anyone here can really help me out on which from the WB range is really best for our home?

I was surprised that the 2nd Engineer strongly recommended a much smaller capacity model than the one we currently have as from what little I know, is that one has to either maintain the size you have to ensure good performance or go for as bigger/next model up to allow fro extra headroom so the boiler does not have to work as hard? I may be totally wrong on this as I am a novice hence coming here for advice.

The 1st Engineer may have recommended the 42CDi as he believed that would service the size of our home best & the 2nd one might have recommended the 29Cdi instead as it has been over 15 years since we have had our current boiler & advances in boiler technology in this time might mean that these days a smaller capacity boiler may well be able to do the same job as a bigger one from yester-year - I do not know but I do believe Engineers were being sincere with their advice.

Please can anyone recommend ANY Combi Boiler from the WB Range that would best suit our needs? I do not know how boiler size & capacity affects things like energy use & how it affects bills - I do not want a small boiler that takes longer to do things & hence uses more energy meaning more running & energy costs but am worried that the same might then also apply to getting a much bigger one - i.e. - it uses more energy than actually needed, hence higher costs etc?

Flow rate is important since we have two bathrooms - my kitchen tap delivers about 17L/min & the 29Cdi delivers about 11L/min & the 42Cdi 16L/min if that has any bearing?

Finally, I read somewhere that if one has two bathrooms and/or a bigger property, instead of a Combi Boiler, one should also consider a System Boiler? I have no idea what the latter is & not being technical, get somewhat bemused by all this so can anyone explain what they are & if they might be a better option for us?

Would really welcome & be exceptionally grateful for any help/advice on which WB Boiler is best for our home!

Many Kind Thanks,
Bazzy.

View attachment 35828 View attachment 35829

Why buy a WB there are others you know , but then do,you always buy the same new car from same maker ? Centralheatking

 

[Bazzy]

Why buy a WB there are others you know , but then do,you always buy the same new car from same maker ? Centralheatking

Hi Rob,

You make a very good point!

I have been watching a fair few videos on YouTube about Boilers & like the good folks here who suggested something other than WB, there were many who commented about their distaste for them as well so I am taking good heed of this!

All except one guy from the London Boiler Company who is evangelical about them - comes across as a very nice guy but he is the boss of the company so he would say that I suppose!

The ones I had been very seriously considering after advice from here & reading comments on Youtube were:

Valliant
Viessmann
ATAG
Intergas.

Out of these & after the very kind & helpful info recently given, I focused on Valliant & possibly Viessmann if need be.

Does anyone know how the Viessmann Vitodens 111-W Combi with a 46L Built In Water Tank compare with the Valliant Eco-Plus 938 that has been recommended compare & which might be better for my needs?

I ask as it was the only other Storage Combi I could find from both recommended brands & a 46L Tank seems quite large so does it offer any real & meaningful benefits over the smaller Valliant (18L?) tank?

They do a bigger/better(?) model, the Vitodens 200-W but I do not think this one has the built in water tank even though it is a top model?

Obviously, I would not want sacrifice any far more important aspects like energy & cost savings, the modulating feature, smart connectivity/monitoring etc.

Many Thanks!
Bazzy!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Viessmann 200 is the top of the top no it doesn't include a tank have a look at the 222 for that

So with the 200 you would need a cylinder or go for the combi version

 

[Rob Foster]

Hi Rob,

You make a very good point!

I have been watching a fair few videos on YouTube about Boilers & like the good folks here who suggested something other than WB, there were many who commented about their distaste for them as well so I am taking good heed of this!

All except one guy from the London Boiler Company who is evangelical about them - comes across as a very nice guy but he is the boss of the company so he would say that I suppose!

The ones I had been very seriously considering after advice from here & reading comments on Youtube were:

Valliant
Viessmann
ATAG
Intergas.

Out of these & after the very kind & helpful info recently given, I focused on Valliant & possibly Viessmann if need be.

Does anyone know how the Viessmann Vitodens 111-W Combi with a 46L Built In Water Tank compare with the Valliant Eco-Plus 938 that has been recommended compare & which might be better for my needs?

I ask as it was the only other Storage Combi I could find from both recommended brands & a 46L Tank seems quite large so does it offer any real & meaningful benefits over the smaller Valliant (18L?) tank?

They do a bigger/better(?) model, the Vitodens 200-W but I do not think this one has the built in water tank even though it is a top model?

Obviously, I would not want sacrifice any far more important aspects like energy & cost savings, the modulating feature, smart connectivity/monitoring etc.

Many Thanks!
Bazzy!

ATAG....no contest
Valiant ...2nd choice
My choice is driven by manufacturer and good inside technical info
Centralheatking

 

[Old Account]

Hi Matchless Plumb!

Thanks again for the really great info & confirming Valliant have great aftercare service - that really gives peace of mind!
I presume you meant to say that you would NOT personally go with a Baxi/Ideal etc? I know this may sound bad coming from a total neophyte like me but there is something about them that puts me off!

It seems that Valliant & Viessmann are the most highly regarded so will concentrate on these two brands then - as not many have mentioned either ATAG or Intergas. Also if Valliant/Viessmann are more prevalent then it makes me question how much more expensive parts/servicing might be on an ATAG/Intergas if their network is not as big.

I am so grateful I was able to learn about this modulating issue as I had no idea about it & it certainly sounds like it is a very important feature to have!

I am based in NW London & called Valliant - they got in touch & one of their approved installers is coming round this week to assess things.

Do I have to now buy from them if I get a Valliant or can I shop around & get second opinions & compare prices as they say always get 3 quotes - I am happy to pay for a proper qualified & vetted professional but also do not want to pay over the odds! I am very weary of contacting plumbers from my local Gumtree as I have read some horror stories of shady folks using fake credentials & paperwork!

How can I, as a novice determine if any prices quoted are competitive/reasonable?

I went onto the Vallaint website but it seems there are two versions of Eco Plus models - is the 938 the best/top one may I ask? How big is the storage tank in it?

On a couple of other points - I have already bought a brand new Filter - a Fernox Omega - can I have this fitted instead of the older version Spirotech one that Valliant offer as part of their protection kit & still get the 10 years warranty?

Must I also have a Power Flush Done as well to get the full 10 year warranty? Reason I ask, is our Rads are really old as is all our pipework which is under the floorboards & we have solid flooring & I am concerned that a power flush may cause leaks or splits at weak joints at pipes under floorboards etc & that would be a nightmare to deal with. Could I instead, opt for say New Radiators throughout the house & have a chemical clean/gentle flush instead? How much would any installer charge for a power flush anyway?

You have been great so again, I really am deeply grateful & appreciative!

Many Kind Thanks!
Bazzy!

Hello Bazzy,

I was trying to say I would not go with any of the boilers like ideal, biasi, baxi, feroli, glowworm etc.. my heart is with Vaillant and viessmann in uk.

Atag is a bad choice to be fair but as mentioned my heart is with Vaillant and for your property all you need is A - Vaillant ecotec plus 938 with up to 20 litres of hot water demand. B- Vaillant uniSTORE and the exclusive green IQ 627 which is top notch.

I am based in London too and if you are willing to have a chat in person about the boiler you can let me know. I assume you will not install the boiler before Christmas but early next year ?

Do not contact plumbers via gumtre, what I have seen and heard is not really great.
If I was you I would use the spirotech protection kit as you have to pay either way for the 3 more years it’s either via the filter ( which provides long warrantyies too ) or you could buy the extended warranty.

You do not have to flush but again it depends on your system how dirty it really is. I would definitely do a chemical flush if you are concerned about your pipeworks. If I was you again, I would want the engineer supply and install the boiler as he will know best what’s required and what he will need. If something is missing he could be charging you ...

You can’t go wrong with the Vaillant boilers at all. Obviously the engineer who you are hiring he has to make sure that the boiler he is recommending you is capable of supplying enough hot water for two showers.

Regards

Ron

 

[rpm]

Is Bazzy the house owner or the caretaker? Post#3 confuses the issue.

 

[Bazzy]

Hello Bazzy,

I was trying to say I would not go with any of the boilers like ideal, biasi, baxi, feroli, glowworm etc.. my heart is with Vaillant and viessmann in uk.

Atag is a bad choice to be fair but as mentioned my heart is with Vaillant and for your property all you need is A - Vaillant ecotec plus 938 with up to 20 litres of hot water demand. B- Vaillant uniSTORE and the exclusive green IQ 627 which is top notch.

I am based in London too and if you are willing to have a chat in person about the boiler you can let me know. I assume you will not install the boiler before Christmas but early next year ?

Do not contact plumbers via gumtre, what I have seen and heard is not really great.
If I was you I would use the spirotech protection kit as you have to pay either way for the 3 more years it’s either via the filter ( which provides long warrantyies too ) or you could buy the extended warranty.

You do not have to flush but again it depends on your system how dirty it really is. I would definitely do a chemical flush if you are concerned about your pipeworks. If I was you again, I would want the e orngineer supply and install the boiler as he will know best what’s required and what he will need. If something is missing he could be charging you .

You can’t go wrong with the Vaillant boilers at all. Obviously the engineer who you are hiring he has to make sure that the boiler he is recommending you is capable of supplying enough hot water for two showers.

Regards

Ron

Hi Ron,

All points clearly heard & understood - no way would I consider some one from Gumtree either!

I take it you mean't to say ATAG is "Not" a bad choice over is one?!!

I am quite worried about doing a powerflush tbh 0ur pipework has not been treated in a very long time & if any joints/seals give way under all the floorboards, we would be in real trouble but again, my true understanding of power-flushing is limited!

I would rather take out each Radiator & flush it manually with a hose in the garden whilst also doing a thorough chemical clean of the pipework that you mentioned. Our Rads bar a few are quite old - approaching 15-18 years so may even consider replacing them with more modern, efficient ones if that is a good option.

Where in London are you may I ask - I am in NW London - is that doable for you? You are more than welcome to come round & take a look & we can have a chat - that would be great! can you supply & fit everything once you have had a chance to take a look?

Pity about being only offered the Spirotech Filters - I really wanted to use the Fernox Omega I already purchased - I really do not like the Spirotech ones after seeing videos of how very poorly they performed! How much do they want/charge for their Spirotech Filter to get the extra warranty?

Feel free to get in touch if allowed - most welcome!

Many Kind Thanks!

 

[Bazzy]

Is Bazzy the house owner or the caretaker? Post#3 confuses the issue.

Hi rpm!

Being the youngest male in a dogmatically female dominated house, I am the general expendable dogsbody who gets lumbered with doing all the research & enquiries but like many males in my situation, can only make suggestions - the real decision making power lies with them - if I get it right, the glory goes to them & if I get it wrong, then my head is in the chopping block - it's not a fair world!

Bazzy!

 

[Old Account]

Hi Ron,

All points clearly heard & understood - no way would I consider some one from Gumtree either!

I take it you mean't to say ATAG is "Not" a bad choice over is one?!!

I am quite worried about doing a powerflush tbh 0ur pipework has not been treated in a very long time & if any joints/seals give way under all the floorboards, we would be in real trouble but again, my true understanding of power-flushing is limited!

I would rather take out each Radiator & flush it manually with a hose in the garden whilst also doing a thorough chemical clean of the pipework that you mentioned. Our Rads bar a few are quite old - approaching 15-18 years so may even consider replacing them with more modern, efficient ones if that is a good option.

Where in London are you may I ask - I am in NW London - is that doable for you? You are more than welcome to come round & take a look & we can have a chat - that would be great! can you supply & fit everything once you have had a chance to take a look?

Pity about being only offered the Spirotech Filters - I really wanted to use the Fernox Omega I already purchased - I really do not like the Spirotech ones after seeing videos of how very poorly they performed! How much do they want/charge for their Spirotech Filter to get the extra warranty?

Feel free to get in touch if allowed - most welcome!

Many Kind Thanks!

Atag is not a bad choice, that’s correct in fact it has a passive flue gas heat recovery unit which will re use the old flue gases to pre heat the incoming mains cold water within the boiler which will reduce the amount of gas consumption.

It would be a bad idea of changing some of your radiators when installing a new system. If your budget allows you to change them that would be the right time. Perhaps, if you haven’t got yet thermostatic radiator valves installed that would be another recommendation from my site.

I am in E- London perhaps about 40min away from you. However, it would be doable for me to visit you and perhaps talk the works over. I do not think spirotech is done poorly in fact I believe they are done quite good. For example I would recommend of installing a deaerator to take the micro bubbles out of the system. I find them very good and they have got long warranties too. I probably would do a chemical flush Instead but it will need to be checked how dirty your system actually is.

Regards

Ron

 

[Bazzy]

Atag is not a bad choice, that’s correct in fact it has a passive flue gas heat recovery unit which will re use the old flue gases to pre heat the incoming mains cold water within the boiler which will reduce the amount of gas consumption.

It would be a bad idea of changing some of your radiators when installing a new system. If your budget allows you to change them that would be the right time. Perhaps, if you haven’t got yet thermostatic radiator valves installed that would be another recommendation from my site.

I am in E- London perhaps about 40min away from you. However, it would be doable for me to visit you and perhaps talk the works over. I do not think spirotech is done poorly in fact I believe they are done quite good. For example I would recommend of installing a deaerator to take the micro bubbles out of the system. I find them very good and they have got long warranties too. I probably would do a chemical flush Instead but it will need to be checked how dirty your system actually is.

Regards

Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks kindly again & advising about the Rads! Do you have that fancy FLIR thermal Imaging Camera that can see inside the rads for sludge etc? It would give me a good idea what the insides are kind of like!

I saw a video on Youtube where a team of Plumbers did two runs of a PowerFlush & 2 x Magnacleanses but even then, they had to physically take the rads off & flush them manually outside with a hose & it was incredible the amount of sludge & crud that still came out even after 2 x Powerflushes & 2 x Magnacleanses!

Our's have not had anything done in about 15-20 years but last time I checked a couple of years ago, the water was still coming out clear when I had to bleed them - I wonder if any sludge that might there might have no solidified inside the rads or is this not possible?

Someone also told me that due to the age of the rads, even though they look perfectly normal on the exterior, they are probably rusted badly inside - is this likely?

Just another question if I can so I can try & learn/understand - on the Valliant 938 the internal tank is I think 18L/20L but on the Viessmann 111-W, it is 46L which is more than double - what are the advantages/benefits of this as well as the downsides?

I ask as it seems quite a huge difference & sizes & there must be a reason why Valliant chose to put a smaller 18L/20L tank & Viessmann a much larger 46L one? Would not the larger one be better/offer more performance etc?

I have sent you a PM regarding meeting up & your checking things out!

Many Kind Thanks!
Bazzy!

 

[Andrew Serrant]

Check out the viessman 111 that is wall hung and has Internal hot water store. Before you go with vaillant check out common faults ,in my experience the ecotec boilers had problems with pressure sensors,gas valves,pcb,thermal link in heat exchangers ,leaking diverter valves ect . Not sure that's the same with the new models . In my opinion WB have the best customer service and offer 10 y gauruntee not warantee no quibble as long as the boiler was installed by an accredited installer and serviced every year . If the pipe work and old radiators are not in good order I would be very careful about pressurising the system, new pipes and rads best option .

 

[Old Account]

Check out the viessman 111 that is wall hung and has Internal hot water store. Before you go with vaillant check out common faults ,in my experience the ecotec boilers had problems with pressure sensors,gas valves,pcb,thermal link in heat exchangers ,leaking diverter valves ect . Not sure that's the same with the new models . In my opinion WB have the best customer service and offer 10 y gauruntee not warantee no quibble as long as the boiler was installed by an accredited installer and serviced every year . If the pipe work and old radiators are not in good order I would be very careful about pressurising the system, new pipes and rads best option .

The Vaillant 938 has the same built in storage which supplies up 20l. Basically you will never run out of hot water and is definitely made for such a property. Never came across issues you have mentioned unless the boiler had been miss treated and not serviced. Aftercare is down to each individual and I can only say I had very bad experience with Worcester Bosch and therefore would not recommend them. Vaillant has a spot on aftercare and supplying 10 years of warranty too with an accredited engineer and Vaillant protection kit.

Everyone has their own favourite manufacturers. However, if it comes to quality Vaillant is by far the best boiler. Vaillant isnt without a reason market leader for many many years. Vaillant is known for their innovative and efficient products, for intelligent smart controls and top service. Moreover known for comfort and good design.
Brands like saunier duval, awb, glow worm, bulex or protherm as well as demir döküm are a very important market portfolio for Vaillant group. Those brands are justified for the demand and middle class prices and stand for uncomplicated and reliable heating technology.

 

[Bazzy]

Hi All,

A very happy new year to all!

I just wish to express to very sincere & deep gratitude to all here for helping me out - I am so grateful & have learned quite a bit!

A special thanks to Matchless.plumb/Ron for really being a top bloke & for the consistent help & advice given - Ron, I would be more than happy to buy you a beer or few - just let me know when!

Due to the extreme pressure we were under at being without hot water over the Xmas/New Year period & with lack of availability of plumbers during this period & that we could not really wait much longer - we finally made a choice!

I had some installers come round from Valiant/Viessman etc but some of their install quotes were just eye wateringly high tbh. Maybe it was a seasonal thing - I do not know.

Initially, I was deeply considering the Valiant 938 (as very strongly recommended by Ron) & the Viessmann 111-W each of which have in built storage tanks at 20L & 46L respectively.

It was a very close call but I was at the mercy of time & installer availability as well as finding one who would install at a reasonable cost.

As things turned out, I was able to get a very good deal on a Viessmann 222-F Boiler with the built in 130L Tank as recommended earlier here but had to act quickly to secure it so I went ahead. I also was able to finally find a Viessmann Trained Installer who is also Gas Safe Registered who gave me a much more reasonable install quote compared to others.

Unfortunately Ron, I just could not wait for your return from Germany as I was getting just too much grief from the others in the house otherwise I would have loved for you to give a quote/do the install.

I was able to get the 222-F with Weather Compensation for really not much more than a 111-W or 938 & even with the install costs added, it was still working out cheaper than the quotes I had for the 111-W & 938 and since we had the space to accommodate the 222-F decided to go for it as we just could not wait any longer.

Thanks again deeply to all who have helped me & to Matchless.plumb/Ron, I am sorry I did not go with the Valliant 938 you very kindly & honestly steered me to but I hope you can forgive me & still feel I have got a good boiler & a good deal?

Many Kind Thanks,
Bazzy!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Great pic the 222 is the best of the best

Any install pics ?

 

[Bazzy]

Great pic the 222 is the best of the best

Any install pics ?

Hi!

It has yet to be installed - work starting Monday but when it is all done, I will surely post pics here - hopefully you will all agree that it was installed properly & correctly!

Many Thanks,
Bazzy!

 

[Old Account]

Hi Bazzy,
I wish you all the best and don’t you worry about not giving me the opportunity. I am happy you came on here and we all couldn’t be a very good help to you. We are happy that someone comes back and gives a detailed update which is quite rare. However, you have choosen a top Boiler to be fair you cannot go wrong with either one of them. I would be delighted to get some updates from you when the install has finished! Thank you for letting us all know and good luck for the installation Bazzy! Thank you for offering the beer but I do not drink any type of alcohol but it is much appreciate it. We are happy to help !!!

 

[Old Account]

Hi!

It has yet to be installed - work starting Monday but when it is all done, I will surely post pics here - hopefully you will all agree that it was installed properly & correctly!

Many Thanks,
Bazzy!

I hoping for the best.