Time estimate?

[Mellyphant]

Hi, our plumber has recently invoiced us for 9.5 days to fix a new boiler and first fix a downstairs shower room and utility room, and fit 3 radiators. It seems like a lot to me and all the builders on site have said the same thing. Basically the job was as follows:

remove old boiler
fit new boiler
connect a new gas meter to the existing gas pipe work in the house
fit new soil stack (including connect to existing upstairs bathroom toilet waste and 1x40mm waste pipe)
first fix shower room (toilet, basin, radiator and shower)
first fix utility room (taps to sink - waste wasn't done, cold water feed for washing machine and radiator)
first and second fix 3 radiators in the house

The job was fairly simple as all the pipe work from the existing system was easy to access. I was anticipating about 5 days to do the job but he came back with 10 days and then reduced it 9.5 days when we questioned why he took so long.

He now wants to pursue this through the Courts so I need to get a sensible view from an experienced plumber as to how long it should have taken. Does anyone have a view how long that job should of taken?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Chalked]

How long was he there?
If he was there for that time, then that is the correct invoice.

 

[oz-plumber]

Simple solution, ask him for an itemised invoice.

It sounds like you had the plumber do the works -cost plus.
Which is not a bad thing until something like this happens.

We do a lot of cost plus work, but the hours and materials are recorded, by ourselves and some of the builders, we do work for.

Did you or the builder employ the plumber?

I would try and work it out amicably and ask him to produce the days, dates and hours worked + an itemised material list.

 

[Mellyphant]

We weren't counting the days he was here, but it was about 10 in total. He seemed to be very slow, the builder said he would have allowed 3 days for a fast plumber and thinks 5 days is very reasonable. The builder employed him but we are paying the bills. We have asked him for details but the most he will give is a breakdown of the jobs done and won't allocate time to each one. I've done my own estimate and it came out as 4.5 days so we have offered him 5 days.

 

[gassafe]

Who has a plumber doing all that sort of work on a day rate?

This should have been quoted & then there's no worry of dragging a job out!

It's difficult for anyone here to say how long the job should take as we haven't seen the job, the property or how difficult it was... A builders opinion is probably worth little too.

 

[Rickster123]

If you agreed to day rate working and the plumber was there for 10 days as you say then he needs paying for those 10 days.

 

[Deleted member 7121]

Builders always under estimate plumbing time

 

[SimonG]

What is in place in writing before the job commenced.

 

[jonnyswamp]

As said above, if he was there for 10 days, pay him
The thing with builders is they expect any trade to be at their beck and call and so when they ring them, they want you there asap
I don't know your circumstances, but if the builder wanted a pipe altered/moved etc the plumber would have had to drop everything and do the work for you, this may only take a couple of hrs but he would be quite within his rights to bill you for a full day
Why a full day for a few hrs work? he may have had to cancel/postpone/lose another job to make sure your job wasn't on stop/held up
This sort of thing happens regularly
Is the quality of his work in question or just the length of time he took
I work for 2 builders and if I have to be on site at the drop of a hat, I charge accordingly with usually a min of half days pay
As I said above, I don't know the circumstances but, if a customer of mine decided a job should take x amount of time, I would feel narked to say the least
What was agreed with the builder or plumber regarding day rates before the work started?

 

[Gasmk1]

as has been staed here already if you agreed 9.5 days and he was there for that time then you need to pay that, Builders do not have a clue about how long jobs take

 

[oz-plumber]

We weren't counting the days he was here, but it was about 10 in total. He seemed to be very slow, the builder said he would have allowed 3 days for a fast plumber and thinks 5 days is very reasonable. The builder employed him but we are paying the bills. We have asked him for details but the most he will give is a breakdown of the jobs done and won't allocate time to each one. I've done my own estimate and it came out as 4.5 days so we have offered him 5 days.

If you take this statement to court with you, you will end up losing the case and end up paying his legal costs.

If I was you I would pay him.
Put it down to a lesson to be learned.

As for the builder, I hope you have a better arrangement with him than you had with the plumber - and for any other trades that may be on the same deal.

And don't forget, most builders want a piece of everyone's cake, either directly from you or from each contractors price.

It sounds like you have been too trusting in the arrangements you have with the building works going on.

 

[lame plumber]

1. builders build and plumbers plumb I would never give comment on a builders work I dont expect them to comment on mine or how long it should take.
2. If the plumber is left on site on his own he would get the job done quicker, working on a building site around other trades will always take longer, sad fact of life.
3. He was there 10 days, you should be paying for 10 days imho

 

[AlexGas]

connect a new gas meter to the existing gas pipe work in the house

!??

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tbh as an estimate

2 days for the boiler
1-2 for the stack
2-3 for the shower room
1-1.5 for the utility room
1-1.5 for the 3 rads

If all copper Pipework and everything clipped your fine esp if he was on his own / with an apprentice

 

[lame plumber]

!??

havent you ever done that then? hello Mr new meter, I am going to introduce you to some existing pipe work

 

[AlexGas]

havent you ever done that then? hello Mr new meter, I am going to introduce you to some existing pipe work

Nope, not a new meter install. I leave it to a gas transporter.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Nope, not a new meter install. I leave it to a gas transporter.

Well hardly a new install just meter swap

 

[Rickster123]

Nope, not a new meter install. I leave it to a gas transporter.

Maybe he is? Maybe he's both? Maybe he's not? ... This sounds like an investigation for inspector AlexGas! Get on the case my good man!

 

[AlexGas]

Maybe he is? Maybe he's both? Maybe he's not? ... This sounds like an investigation for inspector AlexGas! Get on the case my good man!

Sounds like a case for Lut Columbo. Sorry, should stay on the topic. My bad.
:thinking2:

 

[REDSAW]

Tbh as an estimate

2 days for the boiler
1-2 for the stack
2-3 for the shower room
1-1.5 for the utility room
1-1.5 for the 3 rads

If all copper Pipework and everything clipped your fine esp if he was on his own / with an apprentice

i got 6.5 days without seeing the job!
amazing how people dont realise whats involved in this job. heres a rad throw it on the wall and stick a bit of pipe in!

just spent 3 weeks doing a boiler and 10 rad upgrade which i put down to 5-6 days because of other trades in the way and not ready. coupled with that of 2 hours driving time each day to do 4 hours work in bits(6hr) i was billing for the day and loss of time!!
offer me 5 days pay and i would start ripping out...and by the way, builders are a lot quicker of course with their plastics.lol

 

[ShaunCorbs]

i got 6.5 days without seeing the job!
amazing how people dont realise whats involved in this job. heres a rad throw it on the wall and stick a bit of pipe in!

just spent 3 weeks doing a boiler and 10 rad upgrade which i put down to 5-6 days because of other trades in the way and not ready. coupled with that of 2 hours driving time each day to do 4 hours work in bits(6hr) i was billing for the day and loss of time!!
offer me 5 days pay and i would start ripping out...

What gets me is they want to pay penuts and then complain at the quality of the installation nothing straight no clips etc

Also hate it when a bad spark goes first and takes the easiest route and buffers your route up

 

[Best]

Builders should generally mind their own business. It is not the length of time, within reason, that matters, but if the work will be right.
Most builders usually charge plenty and take a cut on other trades work and materials, plus they do each job in their own timescale to the detriment of other trades, but yet they often object to plumbers charges and hours taken for jobs.
If the plumbers workmanship is good, then he deserves paying. If you went to court and told a judge that the plumber should have done the job in less days, the judge would ask you how you come to that conclusion and what plumbing qualifications you have. Judge would require a plumbing expert to represent you as you would not be deemed capable of knowing how long plumbing should take and also any contract if one existed. You still would highly likely lose.
I often take an embarrassingly long time to do some jobs, but on the jobs I didn't slacken, the hours were obviously needed for my standard of workmanship.

 

[Roger Welton]

Lesson learnt should have had a quote up front.

 

[Masood]

Builders always under estimate plumbing time

Everybody does! People think any plumbing task, no matter what, is "just a quick job"...

 

[Best]

I used to do a full heating job normally in occupied, fully carpeted and furnished homes.
All done in copper and no compromise by cutting any corners.
It nearly always took over a week to do even the smallest homes, with or without help, but some people thought that slow. They just don't see the work involved.
Rude, when you think of it for anyone not a plumber to say you are slow at your work. It is really saying you are ,inexperienced or incompetent or just lazy.
I wonder what people of other professions would think if I said their time to do their daily work should be cut in half, as it is really easy work?

 

[AlexGas]

There's no such thing as a quick job!

 

[Best]

Everybody does! People think any plumbing task, no matter what, is "just a quick job"...

I have to laugh when I am asked to do a hard full days work and customer says they will be home at 3.30 to let me do the job! :smile:

 

[snoopy8888]

There's no such thing as a quick job!

but there is a thing call quickie

 

[REDSAW]

how is it you can take your car in for a new wing and spray after a minor scuff and it takes the 4 days to do?

even i can do that job in a day!!!!!

 

[Riley]

Chalk it up as lessen learned. If he worked 10 days then he needs paying that amount. I would not be pleased if some know all builder undermined me to a customer. Nor would I appreciate a customer dictating how long a job would take.

It's really none of the customers business how long a job takes and if you had no agreement up front then you haven't a leg to stand on. Should have got a quote to include timescales and cost. That's how you decide on which contractor to use.

 

[plumben]

I'd of said 7-10 days without seeing the job, with or without other trades In the way, that would be for quality neat job, not lashed in

 

[Chalked]

I've list count if the times when a builder says " there's just a couple of days work"
The trouble is , they will give an estimate and never allow enough time for us.
I always say, let me price the job

 

[Stanios]

Quite annoying hearing another story of "shall I pay this plumber?"
What on earth do people think paying a plumber is discretionary?
If he worked there and got the work done he can charge you any reasonable amount by law. Thats the position you are in if you have no quote. Its not up to you to decide what reasonable is either.

Next time get a quote..

 

[Dotty]

I think the op gets the point.

Shall we leave it there?