starting out self employed

[andyskint]

im new to this forum so first off, hi everyone. I am currently half way through my city and guilds level 2 plumbing course having already completed the level one. I have tried and failed to find someone to take me on as an apprentice so I can get my NVQ 2 aswell as this was recomended by my college. I have now decided to start out on my own instead as this was my ultimate goal anyway. So far I have posted my business card in paper shop windows local to me, and intend to get in the yellow pages and local paper as well. Does anyone have any advice for someone just starting out. I also have made my first attempt at a website to promote my business. the address is andys plumbing services where I have detailed my intended pricing etc. Does £40 min per job and £20 per hour there after sound about right? Im worried about setting my proces too high as Im just starting out. My current experience outside of college practicals includes fixing various taps and toilets, fitting a hotwater solar panel to my own home and a grey water system to flush the toilets. I have also plumbed in but not used (no flue yet) a wood burner with back boiler and 4 rads and hot water. Is this enough to go it alone??? Im not yet gas safe (another 3 years at college) so wouldn't touch a boiler, but beyond this i hope ill be ok when the work starts coming in. any advice or comments would be very gratefully recieved.
many thanks
andy

 

[quality]

Good Luck, try hard, work hard

 

[Paul Cockhill]

Hi Andy

I have done the same as you. I found the best way to get work is get a load of flyers printed and drop them through your neighbourhood doors. Also go and see estate agents and letting agents, they are always looking for local reliable plumbers and if you can do any other handiwork that is a bonus. Also pester friends family etc for work and recommendations.

Also go to a local builder who might employ a few people as bricklayers, joiners, labourers etc . You often find they do not have a plumber on their pay roll and have to call someone in everytime. Alot of plumbers do not want to do small or medium size jobs for builders and you might find an opening there.

Good luck

Paul

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Hi Andy,

Always be honest and work hard, explain things to the customer and always ask if their happy with what your doing whilst your doing it.

Aim to always use best engineering practice, never try to bodge something and cover it up. You will be caught out in the end, in my experience customers are very happy when you point things out that might need doing even if it will cost them more. They just want a good job done

You will get there mate if you stick at it

 

[M&W]

Im sorry to be the bearer of bad new mate but I would go out working for someone first. You sound way to early in your plumbing career to be out on your own. There are many, and I mean many problems that crop up when your doing anything to do with plumbing in a domestic property. Its not as bad if you a carpenter, sparky, or most other trades as when you make a small mistake you don't end up damaging everything around you. Water is very messy, and can damage most things it touches so unless you know exactly what your doing you can come massively unstuck. For instance when you trying to connect onto an existing plumbing system and you lift up the floorboards you need to be able to sort out what pipes what, and trust me it can get quite confusing when you come across systems that were put in before Noah built the ark and was put in in the dark. definite head scratchy stuff. so my personal opinion would be get some proper experience first. Just coz you heard plumbers are on footballers wages (trust me we ent) doesn't mean you can get an apprenticeship and start charging prices like that. someone with your experience should be on about £8 hour and not let loose in someones house. sorry to be a bit harsh but you just cant learn to be a plumber over night and think you can charge a plumbers wage.
So my advice would be get some experience under your belt 2-3 years then think about going out on your own.

 

[spikewt]

yea im sorry too mate. i gotta agree with m&w on this one. Iv been doing it for ten years since i left school and just gone at it on my own. i do a little less work but am ten times more shattered at the end of the day. i thort i was ready years ago but so glad i didnt. talk about jumping in at the deep end if you do.
if you do decide to go for it, the best of luck to ya but please dont be fooled by the money people say you can get, its not there and never has been for me. its better than working on a till in morrisons all day tho.

 

[neal666]

i have got to be honest as well, that website is poor.

 

[johnmcginty]

People buy into branding , try Andy's Plumbing Services as your name has to be capital letters (unlike my username on here) Get a pro to design it as it will be worth it in the long run and advertise like crazy.

 

[Centralheatking]

My advice - been at this game almost 30 years - but started as you are

Go work for a plumbing and heating outfit - and pick up your own work for evenings and weekends - if its too big get a mate in. You will be tired doing 2 jobs but it will be worth it in the end.

Websites and such are 2nd hand sales pitches for large companies - do your neighbours and stay local - bad news travels fast, good news slowly but surely, leaflets delivered by you if you have little else to do and miss out the rubbish houses. saves time and leaflets

- get a good deal at a local plumbers merchants and be loyal/go there for everything -

Go for it

Centralheatking

 

[Big]

Hi Andy,

Having gone self employed myself in July last year i now find myself looking for a job having made the massive mistake of taking voluntary redundancy at a national Company. I have been a plumber for about 8 years and believe me its tough out there.

I had the website which no disrespect was a shade better than yours, i spent £80 a month advertising with yell.com, went round all the local estate agents, letting agents and so on.

Then when you do make money you have got corporation tax to think about, countless letters off the Inland Revenue to try and get your head round as well as chasing money off people for work you have done.

Personally i would say go and get a 9 - 5 and which will give you job security (hopefully) and guaranteed wage.

If you do decide to go on your own, then start by sorting your website out and making yourself known in and around your local area. Beware of constant calls from the likes of Google, Yell, Thompson Local getting you to advertise with them for a monthly fee, sign up to as many free advertisements as possible. Get yourself a good accountant and most importantly be honest with your customers.

Good luck whatever you choose to do.

 

[fuzzy]

its difficult for people to justify paying you £20 per hour when you are not a qualified plumber

 

[johnmcginty]

its difficult for people to justify paying you £20 per hour when you are not a qualified plumber

I have never had anyone ask if I am fully qualified , if you look experienced I think most people are fine with simple jobs , (not gas) although if you are just starting out it will be apparent that you are not experienced. The pricing seems about right for starting out and making sure you get the work in. Just be really confident and have many spares etc in your van. All the right good tools.

 

[mike_s]

Good luck but I don't think set prices work. What if you're an hour extra cus you made a mistake or forgot to get parts, going to charge for that too? People need to know how much something is going to cost, especially big jobs.
"20 pound an hour"
"how long will it take"
"don't know"
See what I mean? Maybe its all you can do as you're not experienced but when possible try to give a price for a job and don't let it go up afterwards unless you really have to and it wasnt your fault.

Plus, if you're charging per hour or day, your more inclined to drag the job out, naturally, you'll be in no hurry. Not good for the customer. We often stay til 7ish to get what we can done if it helps the customer and means we can move on to the next job.

 

[fuzzy]

I have never had anyone ask if I am fully qualified , if you look experienced I think most people are fine with simple jobs , (not gas) although if you are just starting out it will be apparent that you are not experienced. The pricing seems about right for starting out and making sure you get the work in. Just be really confident and have many spares etc in your van. All the right good tools.

you must also consider the moral aspect, just because they dont ask if your fully qualified doesnt make it ok. They most probably presume you are.
why suggest gas? gas does not make you a fully qualified plumber, NVQ2 or craft cert makes you a fully qualified plumber, NVq3 or advanced craft cert makes u an advanced plumber

gas is a different qual for gas fitters. ACs is a qual for plumbers who need to install or work on the gas side of things, a seperate qual by the way

people always mix up 2 or 3 different disciplines, gas, plumbing and H&V

 

[johnmcginty]

its difficult for people to justify paying you £20 per hour when you are not a qualified plumber

Ok I agree with you , maybe if you said EXPERIENCED instead if qualified. As i would prefer to have someone with 5 years exp than a 6089 doing any work. What I meant to say about the gas side is that custards are very aware about " corgi" as they still say and not necissarily anything else , particularly unvented. It is sometimes difficult to articulate exactly what you mean in this format.

 

[moony]

in all fairness john fuzzy mentioned nvq not the tech cert.... i totally agree with you in saying you would rather have someone with 5 years experience than the 6089 but i would rather have someone nvq qualified than 5 yrs experience as i know the experience gained from passing his nvq is quality experience and is certified rather than just 5 yrs......

anyways good luck to original poster, but im sorry to say i think something needs to be done by the government or whoever to stop people opening up plumbing businesses whilst not experienced or more importantly at least certified...

i have worked hard to get my nvq's and struggled on low money with a family to support, i have recently started up my own business - websites registered professional leaflets designed and will be competing against people such as yourself - so i hope you can see why i think something should be done...

good luck though it will be a hard road for anyone to take.

 

[Plucky]

In the long run i'm glad I done things the hard way. 4 years in college. 2 more to gain experience to do my ACS. 8 years in the trade and I am just starting out on my own. I have lots oif contacts now and 2 months work booked in with more in pipeline and quotes waiting to be done.

I feel anxious and nervous enough so god knows what a fast tracker must feel.

Good luck though

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i was absolutely petrified going out by my self after 23 years as a bus driver. 15 months later i don't regret a thing.

 

[oldplumber]

i was absolutely petrified going out by my self after 23 years as a bus driver. 15 months later i don't regret a thing.

if id stayed in Hampshire and been plumbing there, id be earning a lot more due to the huge customer base, but im in devon and the wages are lower but the areas great and the mexican manyarnaa attitude, and be there Tuesday (dont say which tuesday) attitude is far less streeful. So poor but happy in Devon is and gradually building a business is my advice, youll live longer

 

[andyskint]

thankyou everyone who has replied to my question. you have all given me lots to think about.

I have revamped my website as suggested. www.andysplumbingservices.com
I would love to do my nvq 2 before going out alone but have had no luck in finding a placement or a job in the field so feel a little stuck regarding advice that i should wait until i am more experienced. what i have decided is that i will take on any small jobs (i fixed a toilet inlet valve today for example and charged £20 plus parts) that come from the business cards i have put in shop windows in the local area. other than this (and the job hunting) i won't advertise any further or take on any more complicated jobs yet until i have at least finished my city and guilds level 2. Then i will have completed 3 years in college at least. does anyone have any tips on finding an NVQ placement as i agree that this would be very helpful for me? i rang a huge list of all the local plumbers already asking if they were taking on apprentices but had no luck with that approach.

 

[johnmcginty]

All your work guaranteed for a year? why a year?.... ( I would clarify)do you supply all materials? or are you going to guarantee hose tap from aldi custard bought that you installed 364 days ago? that is now leaking ? for drainage and blockages not a good idea! what about your emergency rates? can you do 24hr call out? it is quite lucrative. £40 for a finished job , do you have an unfinished job rate ? do you do an oap discount? Do you have a call out charge or a cancellation fee? £20 to swap an inlet valve, ????? no wonder the plumbers in your area can't afford an apprentice good luck bud

thankyou everyone who has replied to my question. you have all given me lots to think about.

I have revamped my website as suggested. www.andysplumbingservices.com
I would love to do my nvq 2 before going out alone but have had no luck in finding a placement or a job in the field so feel a little stuck regarding advice that i should wait until i am more experienced. what i have decided is that i will take on any small jobs (i fixed a toilet inlet valve today for example and charged £20 plus parts) that come from the business cards i have put in shop windows in the local area. other than this (and the job hunting) i won't advertise any further or take on any more complicated jobs yet until i have at least finished my city and guilds level 2. Then i will have completed 3 years in college at least. does anyone have any tips on finding an NVQ placement as i agree that this would be very helpful for me? i rang a huge list of all the local plumbers already asking if they were taking on apprentices but had no luck with that approach.

 

[quality]

I have to agree with johnm plumbing, gas fitting, drainage whatever the market is saturated with skilled folk that have very little work let alone those who are so called qualified wanting to start out. Time is now to look and get work, it is there but you have got to be able to do it to get it - no offence intended but its not easy to earn a decent wage

 

[Plucky]

Try not to take this personally but your website it shocking. It looks like was made by a school kid.

 

[andyskint]

johnm
is £20 for a toilet sistern inlet valve change too much then? i charged less than my quoted £40 min charge for this as i felt id be asking too much for this job. Obviously i wouldn't expect this much if i was working under a 'proper plumber' as an apprentice.

i know my site is pretty naff too, but its the best i can do without paying a web designer. do i really need to do this, do you guys all have fantastic sites to promote yourselves?

 

[johnmcginty]

johnm
is £20 for a toilet sistern inlet valve change too much then? i charged less than my quoted £40 min charge for this as i felt id be asking too much for this job. Obviously i wouldn't expect this much if i was working under a 'proper plumber' as an apprentice.

i know my site is pretty naff too, but its the best i can do without paying a web designer. do i really need to do this, do you guys all have fantastic sites to promote yourselves?

Just click on my signature at the botom of mine I think mine is just ok enough... if you have a bad quality site then some people may think you put in the same effort in your plumbing, but i understand when you are starting out , click the create button at the bottom of my site you can build one much better quality with that software and get a logo and photoshop it up a bit or get a designer. £20 for an inlet valve ? hmmmm i was sugessting that it is an unconsidered price eg

£20 per job x 30 jobs a month ( for arguments sake) = £600 per month turnover. spend £200 on ads £100 diesel £200 other stuff £100 profit =
£1200 per year. Now as nobody can live off that the price is a silly one and if you are undercutting real tradesmen who charge real prices then they cannot afford to employ apprentices. So just think about your prices a bit more based on the actual economics of your own business structure which would have overheads! and not weather you FEEL its too much because belive me when you have overheads you will not be thinking £20 is too much.I would charge £55 bud

 

[andyskint]

johnm

thanks for getting back to me with your advice. I think i was suckered on that job. i originally asked the chap for £50 after having completed the job as i thought this was about standard. he looked at me gone out and then told me he only had £45 on him. I said that would do, and then asked him if he felt the price was fair as he had given me that look. He said he was expecting to pay about £30 so I gave him a tenner back. The inlet valve cost a little under £15 so I made my £20 for the work. He was quite suprised to get money back obviously and i spent the rest of the day wondering if I had done the right thing. Obviously not if i am really undercutting everyone else which i certainly don't want to do as i can see the problems with this. This was my first real job for someone i dont know, everything else has been for friends and family who i only charged the parts for. this is where my testimonials came from on my site. Do you have a list of prices that you would charge for different fairly standard jobs then?

I like your site by the way, and can now see why mine is getting the comments it is. maybe i do need that web disigner...

 

[johnmcginty]

andyskint , don't wory about it you might get a referral from it and it happened to me too when i started out . Just do an hourly rate of £45 or whatever minimum job 1 hr and I have had that look from customers many a time though it just doesnt wash with me anymore. Every man and his dog has a reason it should be cheaper for them and many a folk will try it on too , if you tell them the price before you start ( labour) and then parts on top how can they complain ?

 

[Flanners]

Ive been in this job 10 years being trained by national award wining enginers and feel I can do my job with my eyes closed. There is nothing that I dont know about the domestic gas, heating, plumbing industry and what I dont know I find out.

Im also qualified in renewables (ground source, rainwater harvesting, solar etc)

However I am still doubting the possibility of starting on my own! Im sure ill do it but it needs to feel the right time.

Dont mean to make you feel daunted in any way just think you need some experience behind you to experience the 'mistakes' as this is where you will learn the most.

Good luck!!!...................oh and sort your website out!!

 

[Centralheatking]

This is really a question for Flanners

How do you qualify in Rainwater Harvesting ? -

Its a serious enquiry as I might want to follow suit

centralheatking