Soldering for a DIY'er

[asadm]

Hi All,

I am planning on laying out two zones of Flow and Returns in my property in preparation for a plumber who will install my unvented cylinder and a system boiler.

I anticipate requiring around 80-100 metres of 22mm which will need to be soldered in places. I may also require the 15mm copper tube falling down to the rads but I may do that in plastic as I want it to appear behind the rads and then connect on to the valves from behind, like they do in new builds. I am being advised to achieve this type of connection with 15mm plastic pipe which will drop down from the 22mm copper and then give me enough flex to bend and connect to the valves.

Returning to the original question - what do you advise me to purchase by way of blow torch? As I said, this is a one-off project and the prices of torches vary from £10 to £150.

Thanks

 

[SimonG]

Sounds a mess. Have you not asked advice from the guy doing the cylinder and boiler.

Could end up being very expensive for you. I know that if it was me connecting on to a diy'ed system then there would be pages of terms and conditions around filling up testing etc.

 

[asadm]

Hi SimonG,

I am intrigued to understand what is so messy about me laying the flow and return pipes. Admittedly, I am not a plumber but have read extensively, worked on a system previously and have a ecosystem of very helpful people on this forum. I will also plan my work in concert with the plumber.

Perhaps you can help with my question on the blow torch?

 

[SimonG]

Sf2..

 

[asadm]

Thanks. Can you please elaborate? What does this denote and any indication on where it can be purchased? Thanks again

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Google will help you choose

What torch does your plumber use? That might put you in the right direction of what may be decent.

 

[Masood]

Thanks. Can you please elaborate? What does this denote and any indication on where it can be purchased? Thanks again

Let me google that for you

 

[Riley]

Superfire 2 best control. Have you soldered before?

 

[Tjdservices]

I could never take on a job like that, but as everyone has said superfire 2

 

[Rickster123]

Superfire 2. Please keep us updated on the project. We love a few pictures!

 

[Best]

With a Surefire 2 it would be fun to watch a diyer soldering for the first time. Hot little things, - they don't call them a brazing torch for no reason.
It is the torch I use, but took me a while to get used to it when I first bought one and that's after being used to soldering for years with a conventional torch.
I wouldn't go near any job that the pipes had been installed by a novice, unless I was desperate for work. Bad enough joining to jobs so called plumbers have done.

 

[Harry Askham]

Reading this makes me scared.

 

[Riley]

Reading this makes me scared.

I am just very surprised that any plumber would be happy to split the job with a customer

 

[Harry Askham]

I am just very surprised that any plumber would be happy to split the job with a customer

Wouldn't do it in a million years mate, but that's me.

 

[Rickster123]

I am just very surprised that any plumber would be happy to split the job with a customer

More money in repairs!

 

[Best]

Bet the labour cost savings would be insignificant.
My thoughts are if someone wants to make their plumbing job as cheap as possible by reducing the amount of hours of labour, then they should do any manual work they are capable of to make things faster for the plumbers, but not do the pipework.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i want to see him bend 15mm hep round behind the rads anyhting less than a 1400 double will catapult its self of the brackets

 

[macackau]

Check your home insurance first. I'm sure attempted DIY isn't covered. With the best will in the world if you attempt this yourself and something goes wrong you'll have to pay for the rectification work. Yes a plumber can make mistakes but he'll repair it or his insurance company will. Sometimes it pays to pay a professional.

 

[SimonG]

i want to see him bend 15mm hep round behind the rads anyhting less than a 1400 double will catapult its self of the brackets

That was one of the reasons why I said it would be a mess. But would like to see the video

 

[asadm]

Have some faith guys, I haven't even started yet

You were novice too once upon a time. With respect, I'm only attempting soldering here. I've installed a system previously; not the neatest but now running for 4 years (still counting). I am absolutely not as knowledgeable as you and I doubt you are as knowledgeable as me when it comes to building Software Applications. I enjoy DIY and would like to do this both for my own satisfaction and save a fortune on labour costs!

On the bending of the 15mm plastic, I've been advised that it should be okay but seen that a couple of you disagree. I have suggested that I can reduce to 10mm if the 15mm is not flexible enough. Feasible?

Also on the SF2, is that really what I should be using given that many of you pros are using this? This is a one-off project for me. YES, there may be a leak or two that I need to remedy...

Thanks for the useful responses. I appreciate it.

 

[SimonG]

That's why I would pay somebody to build a software application if I needed one.

 

[asadm]

Isn't software a very different beast though?

Where's the DIY spirit if I pay for every piece of work? I will pay for the boiler and Cylinder installation but piping doesn't feel like its beyond the wit of a DIY'er. Do you seriously feel that a DIY'er shouldn't be touching a set of flow and return pipes?

 

[hammers4spanner]

oxy acetylene for me never heard of a superfire 2 must be a wind up

 

[joni os]

That's why I would pay somebody to build a software application if I needed one.

Don't underestimate your ability. Provided you have a keyboard with delete button any fault can be corrected with no danger to yourself or fabric of your house.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

oxy acetylene for me never heard of a superfire 2 must be a wind up

what size nozzles and how many fire engines handy?

 

[Riley]

Well with the greatest respect you've just turned your nose up at the torch we've all recommended. It's all about the control of the heat as well as the ferocity of the flame. A diy torch will just cook the joints before you've had a chance to get solder in them. With the best will in the world it may not even be a joint that is poorly soldered and shows a leak now. It might be one that inexplicably blows off under full pressure dispensing mains water through your property in 2 months time. This is why we're all a bit concerned for the plumber as we know which way the finger points when leaks happen

 

[asadm]

Thanks Riley. Once again, I appreciate all the advice you are providing. I will go with the consensus on this. Your explanation has been useful

 

[Tjdservices]

Isn't software a very different beast though?

Where's the DIY spirit if I pay for every piece of work? I will pay for the boiler and Cylinder installation but piping doesn't feel like its beyond the wit of a DIY'er. Do you seriously feel that a DIY'er shouldn't be touching a set of flow and return pipes?

its not that I feel you shouldn't be touching them I just can't get over the fact that a plumber is happy with this set up, I would never work in the situation you are creating. To me your a proffesional within your field and we are proffesional in ours, it just rings alarm bells that your plumber is happy with this set up.

 

[asadm]

Not sure what to say to that.
I intend to involve the plumber throughout and am quietly confident on the results I can achieve.

 

[Masood]

Isn't software a very different beast though?

Where's the DIY spirit if I pay for every piece of work? I will pay for the boiler and Cylinder installation but piping doesn't feel like its beyond the wit of a DIY'er. Do you seriously feel that a DIY'er shouldn't be touching a set of flow and return pipes?

There's DIY, and there's DIY.

If you were planning to change a set of bath taps it'd be a different story. The layout of your pipework can affect the efficiency of your system and cost you a lot of money over the years. Bad notching of joists could cost you a lot more than that, not to mention the daily annoyance of noisy pipes.

Your spirit is admirable but it's like me building a drag-and-drop website on one of those sites that lets you create your site for £1. It will never look as good or rank as well as one created by a pro.

Joints can sometimes look fine, and hold pressure for weeks or months before letting go. This sort of job, with pressurised pipework concealed under floors, is not one for someone who's never soldered.

Much as I detest plastic, if you are determined to do this, I would very strongly recommend you use poly pipe, as you can run huge lengths with no joints.

 

[asadm]

Thanks Masood. I will bear that in mind.

 

[Best]

If you are going ahead with doing some of the piping and soldering yourself, then do loads of practice soldering first. Don't practice on the real thing.
When I did my first soldered joint, it was watched over by a professional and I only got to start after I had watched perhaps thousands of joints in detail being prepared, assembled and soldered carefully.
I still have to use all the tricks of the trade I learnt to solder any solder joint in any situation - awkward or not. It's been a few decades of doing it and I still have to be careful. That why I fear a diyer soldering, as their skill is probably nil.

 

[asadm]

Thanks Best. Now I'm worried!
I wont have the privilege to watch a thousand joints but I've certainly seen tens of them on you tube. I will definitely run some practice joints first

 

[gmartine]

Not sure what to say to that.
I intend to involve the plumber throughout and am quietly confident on the results I can achieve.

Then what are you doing here?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Thanks Best. Now I'm worried!
I wont have the privilege to watch a thousand joints but I've certainly seen tens of them on you tube. I will definitely run some practice joints first

With respect, thats roughly akin to watching lots of p o r n and thinking it will make you a good lover.

 

[markadams]

I get the impression from your comments that you feel that software development is a very skilled job requiring highly skilled intelligent people and that plumbing is just joining pipes and anyone can do it. I am a gas safe heating engineer, plumber and Electrician, I also have a computer science degree and worked as a software developer for several years I know which industry I find more challenging and certainly more rewarding.

 

[Dotty]

Hopefully the op gets the point you are all trying to put across

I'm closing the thread here because the potential to get abusive is fairly high.

Job 38.11