rules for boilers in lofts

[michael c]

Hi guys qouted for a boiler install today with desired location being in loft right infront of the hatch. I have paid for the regs but they arent working at minute can anyone tell me what the rules are around this? The loft is boarded its just the proximity to the hatch im concerned over but the only other option is a bedroom.

Thanks in advance

 

[tamz]

There are no specific rules or regs but common sense tells you it should be floored, at least from the hatch to the boiler, be well lit and a loft ladder fitted.
If it isn't the boiler manu's or anybody else in the future may refuse to go up to it on h&s grounds. Some might even want a handrail around the hatch.

Don't fit it up there if the customer is elderly.

 

[michael c]

No where else to put it mate looking at putting a rail around hatch the ladder needs to be removed but customers says they will replace (needs to change orientation). I just didnt know if the boarding, rails lighting etc was a recommendation or a reg.
Thanks mate

 

[kozak1968]

Boarded access and adequate lighting required.

 

[michael c]

So need to ensure loft ladder is replaced kozak?

 

[kozak1968]

Adequate access, fitted loft ladder prefered.

 

[kozak1968]

Grey area i'm afraid

 

[michael c]

Thanks mate im taking out existing but hopefully new one will be fitted.

 

[tamz]

It very much depends on the attitude of whoever has to work on it or access it. Some wouldn't bat an eye but others, especially those employed by the bigger companies will refuse to go up if things are not right to their H&S standards..

 

[Mike Jackson]

This is taken from the Glow Worm web site

[h=2]What are the requirements for a loft installation?[/h]Boiler installations in roof spaces should comply with the following additional requirements:- • Enough vertical clearance should be provided to satisfy the static head requirements for an
regular heat only system
• Fixed flooring should be provided under and around the boiler for servicing, also from the
entry point in the loft
• A permanent means of access to the roof space should be provided e.g fixed, retractable loft ladder
• Fixed lighting should be provided
• A guard should be provided to prevent contact between stored articles and the appliance
• The exit from the roof space should be provided with a guard rail to prevent anyone falling
• Isolation of gas, water and electricity should be possible without entering the roof space

Most manufacturers will have similar requirements which will need to be adhered to.

 

[lame plumber]

my understanding is that light ladder and floor are building regs requirement, at least that is what buildings control told me to do when i converted my flats a while back

 

[Mike Jackson]

The only mention of requirements in the building regs is this passage from Part J

Access to combustion appliances

for maintenance
1.59

There should be a permanent means of
safe access to appliances for maintenance. For
appliances installed in roof-spaces, walkways
may be necessary for this purpose

 

[michael c]

Well that clarifies there has to be permanent loft ladder thanks guys. Not much space between boiler and hatch so will have to think how best to do it.

 

[lame plumber]

and being they quote safe access youll need lighting as its not safe to crawl around unlit attics

 

[kozak1968]

Should means we would like and must means definately.

 

[Ollieg]

Ladder must also have a hand rail.
Light
Floor
Ladder with handrail

 

[michael c]

There is currently lighting, flooring, hand rail and ladder. Hand rail and ladder need to change orientation to allow install though

 

[deandive]

Im not covinced about the loft ladder, the way I read it there should be flooring to ensure safe access to maintain the boiler and a light. but i suppose the health and safety police frown on using a bannister and a pull up to get into the attic ;-)

 

[tamz]

As i said before it very much depends on the attitude of whoever deals with it in the future.

What about working on a CWSC. What "rules" are in place for fixing a ballcock or even jumping up to turn the water off. Gloves and goggles and disposable overalls and a map in case you get lost in fibreglass.
It is all a load of pysh!

 

[michael c]

Im in probation after going self employed so just trying to ensure i cant be picked up on it

 

[Linkyplumb]

AS others have ststed, lights, boarded and ladder.
Maybe a fitted toilet to stop people relieving themselves in the cwsc

 

[Deleted member 44451]

basically its just common sense and nobody is gonna send you down if one of the above is not up to spec. i go to loads that aint done properly. so i tell the custy but nothing gets done and i dont like wasting my time so i end up doing the service anyway

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

BS 6798:2009
roof space installation
Point 5.3.8
among other things:
floor boarding
a fixed permanent light.
purpose design access - can be a loft ladder.

 

[michael c]

Going to make educated decision next time im back the existing ladder needs to come out but unsure if able to reorientate may just have to fit a condensate pump and place at other end of loft (not an ideal situation as entire loft boarded including roof and walls. With a large built in unit which didnt want to rip out.

 

[deandive]

I wouldnt worry about the loft ladder stick the boiler in the desired location and provide isolation on the first floor

 

[Mike Jackson]

I wouldnt worry about the loft ladder stick the boiler in the desired location and provide isolation on the first floor

Which is great until the boiler breaks down in the warranty period and the service engineer can't get in the loft to repair it. You can skimp on some things and get away with it but safe access to the boiler is one thing you won't be able to skimp on.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

first thing first is will the boiler go up there is the hatch big enough ,

 

[arran197]

Ye, the regs are just common sense, but they are the regs. Light, ladder, handrail, flooring, guard around hatch. All these things are something you need to consider if you want a warranty repair, but it sounds like most of it has been done already. I had considered putting the boiler in the loft at my in-laws, but all that will need doing. The ladder might be tricky to fit too.

 

[lame plumber]

Going to make educated decision next time im back the existing ladder needs to come out but unsure if able to reorientate may just have to fit a condensate pump and place at other end of loft (not an ideal situation as entire loft boarded including roof and walls. With a large built in unit which didnt want to rip out.

Why do you need a condensate pump if your working in the loft, water flows downhill from experience!

 

[michael c]

It has everything already only real problem is proximity to hatch and current loft ladder is attached to wall i intended to fit boiler. Only other option is opposite wall which would require a larger gas pipe and cause problems with condensate and prv.

 

[michael c]

Why do you need a condensate pump if your working in the loft, water flows downhill from experience!

due to the set up in the loft and the design of the house i wouldnt be able to get the fall from the boiler to the exit of the building (no access to internal wastes)

 

[Mike Jackson]

If the boiler is very close to the loft hatch look at providing a drop down cover for the hatch. I fitted a boiler in a loft where the only place it could go because of asbestos was directly adjacent to the hatch. I fabricated a flap that dropped down and covered the hatch so you could safely work on the boiler.

 

[AWheating]

use your common sense.

can the customer safely gain access to operate the boilers controls? (taking into account customers ability's)
can a service engineer safely gain access and work on the appliance?
does it meet manufacturer's/your standard risk assessments for working in lofts/ confined spaces? (will the manufacturer's engineer fix the boiler or walt away?)

normally access for service is engineers choice if they are SE, if direct to a large company they will have certain ristrictions in there HandS policy.

 

[michael c]

Thats a good idea mike. Would solve a lot of issues for me doing it like that.
As for the ladder i will have to discuss with the customer. I know some of the big companies now dont like engineers to use a customers ladders if it can be helped, even purpose made loft ladders.

 

[AWheating]

trouble is most loft ladders dont meet min trade standards, BG and others will not allow there engineers to use substandard access equipment as its against there HandS policy.

its a sackable offence to break your companies HandS policy, so even tho it would seem stupid to not use the customers ladder if there, the engineer will be protecting himself from possible problems, so you will get some engineers who stick to the rules and some who would not care less and just go up.