Mr Wilsons full system build

[Mr Wilson]

Have you done heat loss calculations for the property?

yup used a few calculators that i found here on the forum ... and im not fully designing it myself as i used the infomation i got from my plumber who will install and connect the boiler and gas. at this stage all im doing myself is chase walls install rads and run mains to and from boiler. id probably take a wack at the boiler if i was living in india or china somewhere but being in germany with regulators ect and being that it needs gas connection im gonna have the pros do that.

 

[Howsie]

Good for you!

Looking at your diagrams, pictures and description of the building fabric those rads look on the small side.

 

[Mr Wilson]

cheers mate ... ya that would be a little unfortunate if the rads are undersized. in saying that the rad that we just installed in the picture are the smallest of then rads we had planed for bedrooms. i dont know too much about heating houses myself coming from australia in which were trying to achieve the opposite staying cool thus relying of info from others ie our plumber whom seems to say that bedrooms stay around 18C and therefore require smaller rads as oppose to living spaces which require much larger ones. i believe the biggest we have are about 2 meters long.

Sorry about the lack of updated plans .. but rads on plans are not to scale just rectangles to show location and for general zoning planing also not updated. also plans do not show the wood stoves that are on every floor ... this winter we havent had any heating other than the wood heaters and other than the daily chore of chopping wood we stayed walm.
but thanks for the thoughts i guess well see and have to make adjustments if things arent sufficient.

 

[Mr Wilson]

just did a few more heat loss calculations and it seems depending on the calculator i require 2476BTUs or 725w and that was based on an external wall thickness of 250mm ( thickest solid wall option available) our walls are 600mm... this calculator has alot of input info

the 2nd calculator had only a few variables and gave me 5000Bts or 1700w

i just looked at the rating of the smaller rad in picture and at 30% it produces 700w at 50% 1500w and max 2400w

so i guess it could be a little on the low side and if thats the case ill have to enlarge it and again cheers for bringing that to my attention ill certainly be looking out for that next winter.

 

[Howsie]

Here is your answer: CIBSE - Domestic Heating - Design Guide 2015 (Domestic Building Services Panel)

 

[Mr Wilson]

cheers mate looking in to it now

 

[Mr Wilson]

Mr Wilson is Back ... its been a while since ive last posted as german summer sent me and the house reno outdoors but winters approaching fast and its all plumbing now ...

So for an update ive inslutated the roof and almost sheeted it up and now lifting up the old OSB flooring to lay pipework and create a room for the gas burner (viessman 222-F combi ) ... just finnished prepping a space for our gas tank to be brought on site whcih is about 25m away from the house so i gotta dig a 700mm trench for the pipework from the tank to the house than im running it up the wall about 10 m to the attic space.

good news on the plumber front he seems happy to work with me and basically just do a paid labor job and i source all my own parts and materials as the cuts down my cost dramatically. Like the burner i can buy direct for about 3k but through him its closer to 3400 Euros. so ill save myself a few thousand this way.

i got a few questions like recommended sizes of pumps and general layout so i can get all materials ready but ill taks some updated pics which will help discribe where im at .

will report back soon .

 

[Mr Wilson]

So first bedroom is now complete here is some process pics

 

[Mr Wilson]

so next question ive got is size of my pumps for the system.. in short im splitting the house into 2 zones so will need 2 pumps that run aproxx 10ish rads each ... is there a calculator to determine size of pumps needed...

cheers

 

[oz-plumber]

Yes Mr Wilson,

Done the calculations for you.

Grab a couple of Grundfos UPS 25- 60 Pumps. ( or equivalent )
They are 6 meter head pumps with a 3 speed controller.

If they don't work, you have stuffed up your pipe sizing.

Cheers

 

[Riley]

Who has done your system design by the way?

 

[Mr Wilson]

Yes Mr Wilson,

Done the calculations for you.

Grab a couple of Grundfos UPS 25- 60 Pumps. ( or equivalent )
They are 6 meter head pumps with a 3 speed controller.

If they don't work, you have stuffed up your pipe sizing.

Cheers

cheers mate was looking at these guess i was on the right track... is one of these really better than the other?



also saw this one same pump i think but more simple programing but also cheaper


piping size is 20mm through the whole house. and i was working of a piping design that was with a plumber when i first got me original quotes. its slightly changed now as ive found a shorter path and the location of the burner has moved . i should modify the plan accordingly. ill have my plumber go over everything next week when he lays the gas pipe next week.

should also mention pulled this of the manufacture of the 3/4 pex pipe im using

Pressure Drop Considerations

In general, the greater the distance from the manifold to the fixture, the wider the PEX tubing should be. A 3/8-inch line is sufficient for lengths up to 250 feet; 1/2-inch line will deliver adequate water pressure up to 350 feet; and 3/4-inch tubing is necessary to run a 500-foot line.

 

[tolly]

cheers mate was looking at these guess i was on the right track... is one of these really better than the other?

View attachment 27240

also saw this one same pump i think but more simple programing but also cheaper
View attachment 27241

piping size is 20mm through the whole house. and i was working of a piping design that was with a plumber when i first got me original quotes. its slightly changed now as ive found a shorter path and the location of the burner has moved . i should modify the plan accordingly. ill have my plumber go over everything next week when he lays the gas pipe next week.

should also mention pulled this of the manufacture of the 3/4 pex pipe im using

Pressure Drop Considerations

In general, the greater the distance from the manifold to the fixture, the wider the PEX tubing should be. A 3/8-inch line is sufficient for lengths up to 250 feet; 1/2-inch line will deliver adequate water pressure up to 350 feet; and 3/4-inch tubing is necessary to run a 500-foot line.

Mr Wilson, it is worth doing these calculations properly, pay someone to do them for you or buy a copy of domestic heating design guide, the CIBSE one. It will probably save you money aswell, as from what you have described I would be very surprised if those pumps were needed. Domestic 15-50 type circulators should suffice.

I presume you are having a Low Loss Header installed aswell then?
Secondary expansion vessel for heating aswell?

 

[Riley]

So the design you have is from a plumber who you didn't give the work to?

 

[rpm]

Mr Wilson is Back ..

good news on the plumber front he seems happy to work with me and basically just do a paid labor job and i source all my own parts and materials as the cuts down my cost dramatically. Like the burner i can buy direct for about 3k but through him its closer to 3400 Euros. so ill save myself a few thousand this way.

You do realise why he is happy don`t you? As the labourer all the risks are on you if it goes pear shaped. All up to you to contact various suppliers and manufactures and nowt to do with him.