Heated Debate on UKPF

[Welder]

WSo much information and knowledge gathered over hundreds of years is slowly being lost.

TBH I'm not sure it's being lost per se. What concerns me is the need to pointlessly & continually reinvent the wheel!

Let's be clear here. This is NOT the fault of current generations. I am NOT having any form of pop at them.

The root cause of this issue is MY generations fault, the current 60 yr olds. For reasons beyond my miniscule brain, we deemed it fit and proper to NOT teach those who come after us about the relevance of what went before. For some bl00dy stupid, idiotic, probably politically correct, reason we thought they did not 'need' to know about such things. Perhaps we got carried away with the visions of flying cars in the year 2000 portrayed by 'Tomorrow's World' (google it if under 40)? If so, we should have stopped the weed and acid and grown up, gotten real.

The simply indisputable fact is that knowledge & wisdom is based on accumulation. One needs to understand what went before, what happened previously, to build upon it. This is why, IMHO, the current batch of 'smart' controls do worse (performance wise) than the 1990 controller I have running my system at home. The guys who designed the Tado I link to had to literally to reinvent controls concepts I was using in the mid 1970s simply because they didn't know they existed.

Had they have done, had OUR generation bucked its bl00dy ideas up, they could have shaved 3-4 years off system development!

Us old gits need shooting - not the yoof

Rant off

 

[Last Plumber]

TBH I'm not sure it's being lost per se. What concerns me is the need to pointlessly & continually reinvent the wheel!

Let's be clear here. This is NOT the fault of current generations. I am NOT having any form of pop at them.

The root cause of this issue is MY generations fault, the current 60 yr olds. For reasons beyond my miniscule brain, we deemed it fit and proper to NOT teach those who come after us about the relevance of what went before. For some bl00dy stupid, idiotic, probably politically correct, reason we thought they did not 'need' to know about such things. Perhaps we got carried away with the visions of flying cars in the year 2000 portrayed by 'Tomorrow's World' (google it if under 40)? If so, we should have stopped the weed and acid and grown up, gotten real.

The simply indisputable fact is that knowledge & wisdom is based on accumulation. One needs to understand what went before, what happened previously, to build upon it. This is why, IMHO, the current batch of 'smart' controls do worse (performance wise) than the 1990 controller I have running my system at home. The guys who designed the Tado I link to had to literally to reinvent controls concepts I was using in the mid 1970s simply because they didn't know they existed.

Had they have done, had OUR generation bucked its bl00dy ideas up, they could have shaved 3-4 years off system development!

Us old gits need shooting - not the yoof

Rant off

I wasn't really blaming youth. I was meaning pretty much the same as you. The fast advancing pace of technology seems to leave behind the knowledge and experience which brought about that technology in the first place. To the point where, the generations to follow don't know or understand what went before. That leaves them in a vulnerable position I think.

Whether the fault lies with generations gone by or generations to come is debatable. I personally would say it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. I also think the speed of development means people struggle to keep up with the pace and therefore learning about anything in the past might be deemed a waste of precious time or pointless.

On the subject of re-inventing the wheel, there are many things in that category that make me ponder. For example, Heat pump technology has been around for over 70 years. Ground, Air and Water source have all been known about and used before, yet they are discussed as the new and latest idea. They were invented long before we had changed over to natural Gas in this country but remained relatively dormant for all that time.

 

[Welder]

I cannot see, genuinely, how we can blame the younger generations. They are moulded in our image (nurture) so 'do' as they are guided - at least till they old enough to truly know their own minds. Scientifically around 30 years of age.

It was OUR role to make sure they were fully equipped and we let 'em down big style.

 

[Riley]

If I may weigh in, I don’t disagree at all with what either of you are saying in fact I applaud many of the points made. What I do take umbrage with is who is to blame. Some responsibility definitely lies with the older generation for not passing the information on in a more forced way, however, there is a massive blame on the younger generation where a lot, not all I hasten to add, are frightened of hard work and simply want an easy job where they don’t have to think, but can take a decent wage for talking the talk in an office/admin type role, can dress nicely and they are not interested in self-improvement or using their imagination to design products of the future. A lot of this is down to media portrayal as well as celebrity culture, which in my humble opinion is consistently dumbing down our population. They make out that it is cool to be thick and uneducated. The blame I feel lies with some youngsters who don’t live in the real world and are unable to differentiate between celebrity unobtainable status and a normal life where a manual job is something to be proud of

 

[Welder]

there is a massive blame on the younger generation where a lot, not all I hasten to add, are frightened of hard work and simply want an easy job where they don’t have to think, but can take a decent wage for talking the talk in an office/admin type role, can dress nicely and they are not interested in self-improvement or using their imagination to design products of the future.

Just one question Riley. Are you not the man your parents, and their generation in the form of teachers and values, formed? We all are. Obviously there are many many individuals who are not but the truism applies to the masses.

The old adage of 'if you want to know a wife look at the mother' is an adage for bl00dy good reason. It's a truism. When parents complain about their kids it's mostly the clot looking back from the mirror that's to blame. This is not whimsical on my part btw, this is the output from many many studies (some trying to disprove) and a life of dealing with hand wringing parents of my kids friends "I can't do a thing with little Jonnny the drug dealer..." 'Perhaps' is my thought, 'you' shouldn't have smoked dope and joked about how harmless it is in front of him you pwick...'

Let's take 'the media'... Look at the personalities? ALL the shapers were of OUR generation. The damage had been done by the time YouTubers came along.

 

[Riley]

Ha ha it is true words Dave but I’d say that I am a grafter because of the mentality instilled in me not from any particular parental example set. Both my parents did quite mentally challenging jobs at times but I’ve always had the mentality that if work ever dried up I’d be stacking shelves at Tesco rather than go on the rock and roll. It’s this attitude that I find sadly lacking from some of the snowflakes (and I hate that term but it’s apt) as they throw the toys out because they can’t get the job they want, no scratch that, that they think they deserve. I was always taught that a job is a job. There is nothing wrong with having ambition but dealing with the important things first such as paying your mortgage etc. I went to do a job for a lady I’ve known for years the other day who is nothing but a good parental influence and her daughter is looking for her first job. Long term she wants to be an air hostess, which is fine but has zero experience, understandably at 16/17. The obvious jobs for her would be service roles working as a waitress or in a hotel or even dealing with complaints that sort of thing, but no she desperately wants to work in some high end boutique thinking that will give her experience as well as showing off to her friends. She is firmly of the attitude that because she’d look good in the uniform that some airline would be happy to have her and she has convinced herself that they will waive interview tests such as swimming 50m fully clothed because she can’t swim. Where are these kids heads????? They don’t realise that there will probably be a couple of thousand applicants for two jobs and you have to make yourself stand out. I dont disagree with what you’re saying mate but sometimes these youngsters do not live in the real world and think they deserve some glamour job because its their “human right”

 

[Welder]

Ha ha it is true words Dave but I’d say that I am a grafter because of the mentality instilled in me not from any particular parental example set. Both my parents did quite mentally challenging jobs at times but I’ve always had the mentality that if work ever dried up I’d be stacking shelves at Tesco rather than go on the rock and roll. It’s this attitude that I find sadly lacking from some of the snowflakes (and I hate that term but it’s apt) as they throw the toys out because they can’t get the job they want, no scratch that, that they think they deserve. I was always taught that a job is a job. There is nothing wrong with having ambition but dealing with the important things first such as paying your mortgage etc. I went to do a job for a lady I’ve known for years the other day who is nothing but a good parental influence and her daughter is looking for her first job. Long term she wants to be an air hostess, which is fine but has zero experience, understandably at 16/17. The obvious jobs for her would be service roles working as a waitress or in a hotel or even dealing with complaints that sort of thing, but no she desperately wants to work in some high end boutique thinking that will give her experience as well as showing off to her friends. She is firmly of the attitude that because she’d look good in the uniform that some airline would be happy to have her and she has convinced herself that they will waive interview tests such as swimming 50m fully clothed because she can’t swim. Where are these kids heads????? They don’t realise that there will probably be a couple of thousand applicants for two jobs and you have to make yourself stand out. I dont disagree with what you’re saying mate but sometimes these youngsters do not live in the real world and think they deserve some glamour job because its their “human right”

Hey, been married to two trollie dollies so know that life only too well Both has second names of 'Accommodating...'

The point, once again my friend, is that it's parents' faults. They imbibe their kids with sh1te like, 'You're a genius', You'll be prime minister one day' just cos they tied their sodding shoelaces. Draw a dress on a dolly and get, 'You're better than Stella McCartney"...

What they fail to realise is they are not doing them any favours. That does not build genuine confidence, because that only comes from understanding both ones strengths AND weaknesses AND being able to listen.

I'm going to shut up now cos it's doing my swede in.

When daft sods like us start to take responsibility for what WE have caused our poor kids, they MAY, just MAY, stand some kind of chance. As is, we have consigned them to some form of limbo and, Dear World, I am sorry on behalf of the millions of f-wits like me & my generation out there...

Have a nice day y'all

 

[Rob Foster]

Hey, been married to two trollie dollies so know that life only too well Both has second names of 'Accommodating...'

The point, once again my friend, is that it's parents' faults. They imbibe their kids with sh1te like, 'You're a genius', You'll be prime minister one day' just cos they tied their sodding shoelaces. Draw a dress on a dolly and get, 'You're better than Stella McCartney".

What they fail to realise is they are not doing them any favours. That does not build genuine confidence, because that only comes from understanding both ones strengths AND weaknesses AND being able to listen.

I'm going to shut up now cos it's doing my swede in.

When daft sods like us start to take responsibility for what WE have caused our poor kids, they MAY, just MAY, stand some kind of chance. As is, we have consigned them to some form of limbo and, Dear World, I am sorry on behalf of the millions of f-wits like me & my generation out there...

Have a nice day y'all

Best post on UKPF ever in my book...Yorks Dave well done and this is from Lancashire Gods real home