have these so called plumbers damaged the industry,a straight YES or NO answers only,i have heard all the arguements ,some are genuine,hard working,good etc.it would be interesting aswell if you stated if you are an apprentice, qualified n.v.q level 2 & 3, or a fast tracker. my answer :YES. qualified level 3, through an apprenticeship
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fully qualified plumber in two weeks.
Discuss fully qualified plumber in two weeks. in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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ok well I've got a question for you tamz regarding the signing off of electrics, my mates a sparky but works for another firm but is self employed, if I gave him some sparky work would he be able to sign it off ?
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Plum Bob 66
Is that based one one your own ??
You will undoubtedly have a ceiling down at some time
No, but it still needs signed off.
Agree with this 100%. Level 3 is the minimum recognised qual in Scotland. Think it is more about the money tho hence so many tech cert only "plumbers" who will never be employable
If they had been at it for 15+ years you can be sure they "know" more than they let on.
Some guys just need led tho.
This is not really correct. It's an age thing.
The time however is undoubtedly coming when the trade will be split into sections like gas. More money for the so called "training" establishments.
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kirkgas
ok lets take a step further, why didnt you study and achieve technician Level, too hard for you? if some guys get level 2 then work damn hard and learn tons by doing it to make a wee life for their families what are they doing wrong, a lot of jobs we do now dont require technician or advanced level, nothing gets fixed now all things just get binned and renewed like for like, and these days how many people are required to design a full install of 20 whbs and wc's over 4 levels
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tamz
If he is a member of Select he can self cert. Otherwise he needs to go the building control route. In reality i doesn't happen
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tamz
Do it long enough and it happens to everyone at some point.
The plumber who says he has never has a leak come through a ceiling is a liar.
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tamz
Out of curiosity Kirk. What level does your place offer as standard?
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kirkgas
we only do gas, unvented, energy efficiency and moving into renewables
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tamz
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REDSAW
i used to have a mate called marlon!
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Resolute
I appreciate and fully agree that time is the biggest teacher and there's no substitute for experience but there is definitely certain specialised areas in plumbing.
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tamz
As in?
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tamz
My first teenage fantasies were about a Marlon. Next door neighbour, probably about 25, with some set on her
I digress lol
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you couldnt have completed the test pieces we had to do for a craft cert in 2weeks i only just finished them all in 3 years of day release and lots didnt
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Resolute
I was thinking more along the industrial and renewables.
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REDSAW
i agree, this is where i am.
started in '77' on apprenticeship got sacked by my uncle.lol.
later did the nvq 2 & tech 3 and thought why do i need system planning for large projects, buisness planning, stock ordering?. unless i wanted a job in the offfice.
nvq 3 dont make you a better plumber than a nvq 2,
experience does.imo.
also, i disagree that a nvq 2 is a basic level and nvq 3 advanced, as your what the o.p is saying that there is no intermediate level. now c&g 2&3 i would say is a basic level off plumbing knowledge but not skill.imo.
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tamz
The hardest thing about "renewables" is the spelling.
If you go into industrial it is actually easier. It is all designed for you and you just do your job. Fit pipes from A to B. All pretty basic principles on a bigger scale with no worries.
If you want to get into design, technician level (or whatever it is called these days) gives you the basics but you need to go for a minimum HNC or degree. It is mainly maths and can be extremely boring unless you like algebra.
Nothing much new in those routes. That has always been the way.
If you go into industrial it is actually easier. It is all designed for you and you just do your job. Fit pipes from A to B. All pretty basic principles on a bigger scale with no worries.
If you want to get into design, technician level (or whatever it is called these days) gives you the basics but you need to go for a minimum HNC or degree. It is mainly maths and can be extremely boring unless you like algebra.
Nothing much new in those routes. That has always been the way.
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fuzzy
C&G call it basic and advanced. if you have the advanced you have more knowledge and skills
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Plum Bob 66
Lol, never had a leak come through a roof, your right on there tamz. Last year it did happen to me.Forgot to tighten up a compression fitting on a trv. Went to refill the system and heard this gushing noise upstairs. Ive never moved so quick. Fortunately got it dried out with no dmage done, but it was a lesson learnt, check and check again if not sure.
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fagsanbooz
Yeah, tried, but firm said at time I had to do at least a minimum of 3 years post gaining my advanced (JIB grading stated you had to do 2 years after apprenticeship to be considered 'advanced') before they would consider 'technician' level as this was only for the ones identified as 'supervision material'.
About 6 or 7 from my class done it but hey were mostly council plumbers.
Not at all having a go at them but the attitude in the whole industry itself. This is not just confined to 'fast trackers' but others in trade as well. People should be encouraged by others in trade, good colleges and the government funding the courses properly.
Anyway, on the NVQ 3 front, spoke to couple of college lecturers friends of mine today and got this approximate info below about the current NVQ3 course.
Time on course 1 to 1.5 year this is going to college 1 day per week 9-5 etc.
40% is just 'Gas', content is the same as ccn1 and the appliances elements
25% is Central Heating and most of it is all domestic sealed and vented systems, Part L stuff, wiring s & y plans, boilers and so on.
15% is Unvented systems with quite a bit of practical
10-15% is water regs and cold and hot water
Only a small amount of soils, wastes and drains etc
10% is 'planning' but most of that was calculating rads, boilers, heating loads, expansion vessels, building regs, specifying controls to part L, pipe sizes etc
Seemed a really good course to me, with really up to date stuff, cannot think why some 'duck out' and apparently the new nvq will have gas and renewables as part of it.
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Dormouse
Hi, first post, be gentle....
I am new to the industry & a 'fast tracker', I've just spent the last 8 months doing a Gas ACS, CPA1, Energy Efficiency (Part L) a week at Baxi Main Potterton & days at Vokera, Vaillant, Viessmann, Glow Worm, Honeywell etc. I'm in the process of starting an NVQ2 at college to learn the water side.
Reading the last post regarding the NVQ Level 3, the only thing I'm missing is the water regs, soils & unvented!!
Have I done them the wrong way round?
I am new to the industry & a 'fast tracker'
, I've just spent the last 8 months doing a Gas ACS, CPA1, Energy Efficiency (Part L) a week at Baxi Main Potterton & days at Vokera, Vaillant, Viessmann, Glow Worm, Honeywell etc. I'm in the process of starting an NVQ2 at college to learn the water side.Reading the last post regarding the NVQ Level 3, the only thing I'm missing is the water regs, soils & unvented!!
Have I done them the wrong way round?
Toddyplumb
Gas Engineer
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A bit harsh Danny. What is your background Dormouse
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Dormouse
ha ha.... no not quite... I have a background in logistics & recruitment, HGV ADR (Gas cylinders, chemicals & tankers). Factor in that I've had to buy all of my tools & van for the first time, yeah, you could say it cost a few quid!!
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fuzzy
Hi, first post, be gentle....
I am new to the industry & a 'fast tracker'
Reading the last post regarding the NVQ Level 3, the only thing I'm missing is the water regs, soils & unvented!!
Have I done them the wrong way round?
yes the short courses are competence person schemes not quals as such
D
Dotty
D
Dormouse
Toddyplumb
Gas Engineer
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- 983
I knew I should av used a smilie , it was a bit tongue in cheek Danny
THe IT guys I know could pass all the exams but wouldnt know which end of the spanner to use . ......stop it
THe IT guys I know could pass all the exams but wouldnt know which end of the spanner to use . ......stop it
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fuzzy
i find IT guys are very good at sorting issues with computers and stuff
ring any of the elec bodies,ask them what you require to sign off minor work in a domestic setting,defined scope and full scope as i said not a qualification and not a requirement ,a knowledge of what your doing and 17th edition wiring regs is what they will ask for.
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