Draining rad circuit in reverse maisonette

[Pipework plus]

Hi all my first post here so forgive me if this has been answered before.

I've quoted to do a boiler swap from an awful Glow worm 18SXI system boiler and tank/cylinder (gravity) to a combi. (gas safe reg 582473 before you ask) the entrance to the flat, current boiler and drain point is on the First floor, there are 4 rads in the rooms on the ground floor beneath which have no drain points and are below the level of windows/doors so cant be drained. I want to drain the circuit so I can change valves downstairs and refill with fresh water/inhibitor but am at a bit of a loss how to do it. My thought is to remove one of the ground floor rads, connect a hose to each remaining valve and somehow pump the water/sludge out down a hose on one side down the stairs to the street . I'm thinking like a bike foot pump or similar. anyone done this/got any tips or better ideas.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Can you fit a self cutting drain valve and then replace the pipe once drained??

 

[Pipework plus]

Yes I can but I'd still have nowhere to drain to as there is no exit from the property at low (downstairs) level

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes I can but I'd still have nowhere to drain to as there is no exit from the property at low (downstairs) level

Don't suppose you have a spare single impeller / condsate pump around ?

 

[Pipework plus]

I don't but can see where you're coming from, thought about a shower pump (which I have got knocking about) but think it will only do half the job then stop. These type of flats/installations are quite common in Brighton so an invention utilising a condense pump might be a good investment.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Take the flow switch out and wire it up so its running permanent, If your stuck and want to try something cheap to test it dry a drill pump

 

[Best]

How do you figure out that the water in the bottom rads cannot be drained through the windows? I can assure you they can easily.
Just keep the system filled, so boiler on above floor etc has water in it. Then just turn the both valves off on a ground floor rad and remove the rad and pour water into a large bucket or whatever. Then link a hose onto one of those rad valves and put the hose out the window and be sure to leave the open end of hose down at a lower level outside to the rad valve (as low as possible.) Turn the valve on and it will not only drain the above floor, but will also syphon the ground floor. That is the whole principle of syphons

 

[Last Plumber]

I might be missing something here so bare with me.

Can you not just take the four rads outside and empty/flush them out ?
Like you are thinking of doing with the one ?

 

[Best]

I have drained loads of systems from a rad valve or drain point that was much higher than pipework, yet when I cut into pipes later I find they are often empty of water.
I syphon copper cylinders regularly by pushed a hose with piece of copper on end down in top of cylinder and putting the other end of hose out top windows to ground below.

 

[Best]

I might be missing something here so bare with me.

Can you not just take the four rads outside and empty/flush them out ?
Like you are thinking of doing with the one ?

He could, but I think he wants to also replace rad valves etc. Easier if he drains all from a ground floor rad valve, as I said.

 

[Last Plumber]

Like you said best, I've never had a problem emptying a system so I was a bit confused .
I still think I'm missing the problem !
Is it a basement or cellar ?
If it's ground floor, why can't the hose go out the door

 

[Pipework plus]

Hi Best thanks for that, I need to have another look at it, I've got a feeling that being on a hill the light well which is on the other side of the window has a higher ground level than the level of the rad valve but I could be wrong. There is a drain in the light well which I should be able to push the hose down.

 

[Best]

Last Plumber, I am wondering same, but maybe the door is on a higher floor and only windows on ground/basement floor. As long as the hose is at a much lower level then where it is draining, it will keep sucking out all the water, once started

 

[Last Plumber]

Yep syphonic job !

 

[Best]

Hi Best thanks for that, I need to have another look at it, I've got a feeling that being on a hill the light well which is on the other side of the window has a higher ground level than the level of the rad valve but I could be wrong. There is a drain in the light well which I should be able to push the hose down.

You definitely need the hose to go to a lower drain point, but you could try using a long or extended hose if it is possible to take the hose even if necessary over a hill until you can drop it to a lower level than the rad valve. Tip for starting a syphon without any effort is fill the hose with water from a main tap and keeping end closed to hold water in the hose, join to drain off and open other end of hose

 

[Pipework plus]

Because there is no door, entrance is on first floor two bedrooms and a bathroom on ground floor into a light well (which I havnt got access into) there are windows in these ground floor rooms but I'm not sure the external ground level is lower than the rad valve I'd be draining from.

 

[Pipework plus]

Actually you've just solved it for me best, extra long hose up the stairs through property door down stairs to front door and out into street then down the hill would do it wouldn't it, gonna need a few hoses joined together methinks

 

[Best]

Pity if you can't get a lower ground level within a long hose length distance.
I wish I had bought one of the single water pumps that Lidl had in a clearance sale for £15 for such an occasion.

 

[Pipework plus]

Thank you btw I can't find the thanks button

 

[Best]

Actually you've just solved it for me best, extra long hose up the stairs through property door down stairs to front door and out into street then down the hill would do it wouldn't it, gonna need a few hoses joined together methinks

As long as the hose can't draw air in, you will get it all drained.
Just starting it flowing is the bit to overcome, - that's why I suggested you drain entire system from ground floor so you have plenty head of water above it.
Be careful your hoses and rad valve connections are good and stay with it. Don't want dirty heating water all over

 

[Best]

I would be wary of having hoses lying across ground and pathways for some clown to trip over and try to claim from you.

 

[Pipework plus]

Indeed it's a busy part of town too. A drill pump into the bathroom seems like an option if I can't get a decent symphonic route, can get drill pump for £20

 

[snowhead]

Drain all you can with a hose, then use a WET VAC.

And before you do any work in the lower level, check you can safely get out through a window in an emergency.

And if you're going to be using a blow lamp, a Fire extinguisher would be handy to prevent that possible emergency in the first place

 

[Stoney Ground]

Try not to get any sludge on the beach, don't want that on my budgie smugglers.

 

[Pelsey29]

Why not drain the top half like normal and the bottom half into a few buckets via a rad valve. Won't take long at all.