Boiler installation issue with wrong flue

[saybut]

Hi,

Hoping someone here can offer some advice, just registered to ask this question so can't offer anything meaningful to the forum myself!

Just had a gas engineer out (gas safe) and we've got an issue with our combi boiler where the wrong flue has been installed on it and it has melted because of the heat. I live in a managed block of flats but own the flat. The flat is just under 10 years old and the boiler was installed with it.

Also, the engineer said that there were no structural supports installed with the wrong flue, so when it has melted it has collapsed back in on itself. Got a feeling but not 100% sure that it was installed by a builder rather than engineer & next step is to find out if they are gas safe or not.

Basically I'm trying to find out if it's illegal or just bad practice to install the wrong kind of flue. because we live in top floor flat we'll need scaf. and quite a bit of time so probably looking quite expensive.

If anyone could guide me at all (going to speak to gas safe tomorrow and see if they can do an inspection) it would be greatly apprecaited.

Many thanks.

Mark

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Hi Mark ,

Unfortunately there is a lot of this going on as more and more customers go for the cheapest quote and .......
To be honest you will be waisting you time and you will not get anywhere as they only show interest if there is fatality .
I did report exactly the same story about 3 years ago , result never ever heard back from them ....
Could you not fit a vertical flue if there is a flat roof ? Could you not relocate boiler so its easy to drill 5" flue out ?
Your engineer should be able to make a good suggestions of boiler positioning and running flue

 

[Ray Stafford]

Hi Mark ,
To be honest you will be waisting you time and you will not get anywhere as they only show interest if there is fatality .

Sorry SGI, I can't agree with this. If its in a block of flats, and the boilers were all put in when the block was built, then the chances are that there are more dangerous installations in the same block. For his own peace of mind, and out of a sense of responsibility to his neighbours, the OP has to report this.

Also, if there are several appliances with the same problem, it might be cheaper to solve the problem collectively - for example one lot of scaffolding might cover several flats.

 

[lame plumber]

still needs to be riddored by initial engineer and hse can and sometimes will go back to the builder if its that bad, plus the rest of the apppliances in the block would need checking if one is really bad!

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Sorry SGI, I can't agree with this. If its in a block of flats, and the boilers were all put in when the block was built, then the chances are that there are more dangerous installations in the same block. For his own peace of mind, and out of a sense of responsibility to his neighbours, the OP has to report this.

Also, if there are several appliances with the same problem, it might be cheaper to solve the problem collectively - for example one lot of scaffolding might cover several flats.

I agree with you Ray , worked on a contract and boilers were fitted by non GSR engineers every day ,
Worked on a new build : boilers , solar , heat pumps ,UHWC + all plumbing were fitted by learn on site man

 

[saybut]

Hi all,

Thanks and really appreciate the advice and quick replies.. Yeah that was one of my concerns that if ours is bad then whats to say that others flats in the block dont have the same installation. Think it numbers up to 40 flats.

I'll get in touch with GS tomorrow and our management company here to see what they say.

For ref too it's not a flat roof.

If anyone is interested more than happy to let you know what GS say.

Thanks again.

Mark

 

[SafeGasInstall]

please do let us know mark

 

[saybut]

yep will do, out of the country for a couple of weeks soon, hoping may happen before then but will update when back if not,

 

[Ray Stafford]

Yes, I would also like to know what they say.

 

[saybut]

Hi all,

Just a quick update on this. Contacted the management company of the building who have sent GSE round already. He's confirmed what previous E said last night and said he was shocked at the way it has been done, i.e. no supports for flue, let alone wrong flue being installed.

All other flats will be checked now which is good news.

The GSE who contracts for the mgmgt company seems to think that it is going to be their issue to sort out & pay for, or it will have to be taken up with the builders by them rather than us as it was all installed when it was built.

Need this (cost & responsibility etc) confirmed by mgmt company rather than just the E who came round but today it looks like they may be responsible for it.

Also I noticed this morning that the flue system & boiler must have been installed by two different sets companies (not sure if that is good practice/nothing wrong with it?). The reason I say this is that on the boiler there is a completion sheet by builder who installed, majority of it is filled out but the section about the flue/ventilation etc has no details and just a big X through it, i.e. not for him to deal with/already done.

Final question was going to be, do I still need to speak to GS board or if both engineers who have been round are registered, I guess they have a duty to inform if there are more serious problems so I don't necessarily have to contact them now?

Will update when I get more info/things confirmed.

Mark

 

[Reg Man]

By GS, I assume you are referring to Gas Safe Register. That would be a good move to make a complaint through. As this could involve 40 Flats and we do not know if the engineer who found the problem has raised a RIDDOR or not, which he should have done, I would recommend you go directly through to your local Health & Safety Executive office and explain to them the situation. This is a very sensitive issue at present and top of the HSE hit list for gas. There have been a number of fatal incidents in recent years relating to flue in flats.

 

[saybut]

By GS, I assume you are referring to Gas Safe Register. That would be a good move to make a complaint through. As this could involve 40 Flats and we do not know if the engineer who found the problem has raised a RIDDOR or not, which he should have done, I would recommend you go directly through to your local Health & Safety Executive office and explain to them the situation. This is a very sensitive issue at present and top of the HSE hit list for gas. There have been a number of fatal incidents in recent years relating to flue in flats.

Hi Reg Man,

Yeah sorry meant Gas Safe Register. Ok thanks, should have info back from the management co tomorrow and then will go to Health & Safety officer too.

Thanks.

 

[Reg Man]

That's Ok, no need for apologies, Hope it goes well, would love to be updated on your progress.

 

[saybut]

Hi everyone,

Finally got round to giving an update on this.. Been abroad for a couple of weeks but general story is below, apologies its a bit long but including all the detail.

In summary: Management company fixed flue after claiming not their responsibility, boiler broken again but waiting to find out if because of new flue. Mgmgnt company have sent letter to all flats saying flue outlet pipe installed the wrong way round.

Full version of events:


As a quick reminder, the type of flue which was installed was was the wrong type for the boiler, and the flue ended up melting, no support structure in place so it fell back through into the roof.

On the day we were leaving to go abroad, the building company or the management company of flats were not replying to us. 16.55 and the management company replied with a snippet of the contract saying they were not responsible for it. We had asked the builders to give us some info but hadn't heard a word back from them (via management company this is).

Really stressed so we emailed the management company and builders together and asked them to give us some answers on a few points as we were going abroad, possibly a slightly OTT email, nothing threatening just wanting a reply.

We received a reply from management company, saying that they were very disappointed in email, and that they had fulfilled their responsibility and suggest we seek legal advice if we want to take it further.

We flew other side of the world that morning so couldn't speak to them for couple of days. Eventually after about a week and a couple of emails to management company and an apology for going over the top in my email, they change their minds and said that they would look at repairing it. A relative had keys so let them in and they replaced the flue, all very good of them. The boiler stopped working again a day after we got back, got our energy company on it and they replaced a couple of parts on the boiler (as not 100% sure of the problem) and we told them about the flue getting replaced. They said that could be an issue (something like a seal not fitted correctly) and the air not coming through. Just speculating but we are currently waiting for energy company to come round and take another look at the flue.

We haven't received any paper work or anything from management company on fixing the flue, so not 100% sure if its been correctly installed etc. Energy company are now also a bit wary of giving us an answer on fixing it because management company have fixed it too (literally just had a call from energy company now).

Also, as plot thickens, we've just received a letter from management company sent to all tenants stating our original problem with the flue, and letting them know that other people may have the same issue so they need to inspect all flats. Finally some admission from them on it being an actual installation issue!

The letter stated the problem,

"discovered that the air inlet pipe an the flue outlet pipe had been installed the wrong way round, allowing hot gasses to damage the plastic parts of the flue which was mean for the incoming cold air. This had obviously caused the melting and distortion of the flue adaptor and vertical flue pipe"

As another question, does anyone know if that could create lasting damage to the actual boiler as well as flue? Any advice here on possible effects would be welcome, hopefully energy co. engineer may advise when they turn up.

We are currently waiting for the management company engineer to come tomorrow to look at it, and energy company reply to tell us what they want to do next. I'll update once know more, currently starting week 2 of no boiler!

Cheers,

Mark

 

[lame plumber]

if you want to elevate it and get things moving you really need to get HSE involved before they are all repaired and also complain to gas safe as well. may not cure your problem but may well save someone elses life in the future.