Advice on a good boiler

[pauls]

when you say cant go up in size on gas ive seen a small length of 22mm coming off meter and then going up to 28mm

 

[migoplumber]

as said above, not technically correct, but does decrease pipe friction.

still waiting for an answer as to explosiveness ?!

 

[gakmonkey]

when you say cant go up in size on gas ive seen a small length of 22mm coming off meter and then going up to 28mm

to be fair I have seen a trv on the gas supply to a radiant fire, but it does not make it correct. does no one use 28mm meter unions?

 

[ceedy]

Still not decided yet ??..

But have done all the prep work for the new Pipe feed to the new location in the upstairs cupboard, ripped down new coving cut grooves in walls etc .at least the boiler will be much closer to the main feed/return pipe runs to the Rads, but further from the tank .
The new gas line will be 8.6 metres with 4 or 5 ..90 degree bends ..

But before we go any further, is there any point in going above 22mm ?

I'm getting all the supplies in then getting a goalkeeper to install it all..
My number one son runs the local footy team and the goalie is a Corgi! .

If I can get hold of him , a bit busy will confer with him on this , but its alway better to get lots of Opinions.. oops .. info !!

Chris

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I'm thinking a Remada Avanti 24 or 30 System Bolier is the one .. a teeny bit more costly, but longer warranty than most .,?

Seem a reasonable choice ??? then I can chuck the roof tanks etc .. and have more access up there, for more junk

C.

 

[prs1]

sometimes you just dont have any option but too upsize to obtain correct gas flow rates.Yes i know it not best practise but theres times when cost and what is resonably practicable.
I had to do this on an install of a 33kw he combi on a long run,but could not accsess the first 8ft from meter,custard dint want an external run on her 275,000 pound house and she didnt want me chisleing her dining room wall out.
It was were GSR Probationary visit came to and he was quite happy that it was the resonable thing to do after checking the calcs for sizing.
No mention of explosive mixtures though other than the usual 5 to 15 % if i remember right.

 

[ceedy]

Well done the chiseling of the dining room already ,,
And I'm not have an external draped around my nicely point hamstone
either anyhow that would be over 20 meters .

22mm will fit in all the places round/through the beams, but 28mm will be a bit tight with no room for wrapping.

so 22mm it is then , can still use the old 15 mm back boiler feed for a standalone fire in the inglenook.

Chris.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

pipe sizeing is a pain in the axxe l worst run i ever did was 50 ft of 1.1/4 then to inch then 22mm, 2 x 24 kw combis in a pub calcs for 48kw

 

[moony]

as said above, not technically correct, but does decrease pipe friction.

still waiting for an answer as to explosiveness ?!

your not going to get one cos its a load of **** lol

has to be a mixture of gas and air in pipe for explosive reaction - its not going to happen unless the gas valve sucks air in - even then it wouldnt be no where near enough to be explosive as he said

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

thats what i said q, lol? i pixxed my self when i read that

 

[migoplumber]

ceedy, good boiler choice - no need to go above that for any normal domestic situation.
gasman

 

[InterGAS]

I just fitted a Baxi 133HE into the catholic church and it offers perfect hot water, keeping in mind its a priests hotel, well kind of , 6 bedrooms and 6 basins - 5 baths and around 15 rads, not a problem.
Good after sales, cheap parts nice boiler.
If i remember right you can do something with the board to bump it up and extra 20,000 btu without effecting warrenty.
As for pipe sizing you should complete an assesment, taking into account other appliances and your mains gas supply, for example our area is shocking.
you working pressure at the boiler should be 2mbr loss to the valve and MAYBE another 1mbr if your pushing it across the valve body and you can go a bit further is your reading the regs inside and out by getting a poor supply from the street if NGN agree.
28mm I have seen in houses, but 22mm is normal.

why do i never hear any one mention vokera as a good boiler ....
what do you think of that make of boiler ?

Voker compact 29 is a great boiler we fit in the average house, hot water and heating excellent B rated but only because of fan speed, the vokera compact looks better than say baxi duotech and is better!
Only £540 with flue, clock and stat for us, nice package for 1400 supply and fit with 5 year warrenty.
Nothing has ever and will ever beat the Baxi 105 basic combi!
Outstanding!

 

[garry38]

varuka's are not a gd boiler stay well clear! only get 1 if u want some free golf clubs from plumb center

I take it you have never fitted vokera then because if you had you would no that the vokera linea he is an outstanding boiler and as good as any out there it is also a rated and i fit them all the time.
also the vokera compact he is a cracking boiler to fit if you are doing work for someone on a budget but this boiler is b rated.
there is not many who would say STAY WELL CLEAR as i have fitted around 50 vokeras in my time with very little problems

 

[prs1]

Untill you have to buy a board for one,might as well buy a full boiler and break it yer self.

 

[ceedy]

Just Been offered a new unused Ideal Icos 24kw M3080 , with flue kit for £120 ..

well its cheap.. any other plus points ? .

Chris

 

[Puddle]

Just Been offered a new unused Ideal Icos 24kw M3080 , with flue kit for £120 ..

well its cheap.. any other plus points ? .

Chris

Is that what they are paying you,to take it off thier hands?

 

[ceedy]

..

But wos after more contructive answers

 

[oldplumber]

great for standing on to install a remeha or baxi on the wall, after all theyare a solid and compact boiler. Nothing else to say about the icos really accept that on all but one ive come across recently the temp control knob had been broken off, probably by the customer trying to get some heat out of theboiler, lol

 

[ceedy]

Still ponsing about on this .. but had other things to do.

Looks like settling on a W-Bosch Greenstar, ?? maybe .. 18 RI seems quite suitable or shall I go up to a 24? just in case ...the old Boiler was only 50k Btu's. ?

C.

 

[doitmyself]

Looks like settling on a W-Bosch Greenstar, ?? maybe .. 18 RI seems quite suitable or shall I go up to a 24? just in case ...the old Boiler was only 50k Btu's.

50k BTU is just under 15kW

What does the Boiler Size Calculator say you should have? Get the nearest size larger. There's no point going over the top as you will then be restricted by your radiators.

If the calculator says that you need a 15kW boiler but the house is not getting warm enough, you need to make sure that your rads add up to at least 15kW. You can do this by using the Stelrad Elite Catalogue.

 

[ceedy]

50k BTU is just under 15kW

What does the Boiler Size Calculator say you should have? Get the nearest size larger. There's no point going over the top as you will then be restricted by your radiators.

If the calculator says that you need a 15kW boiler but the house is not getting warm enough, you need to make sure that your rads add up to at least 15kW. You can do this by using the Stelrad Elite Catalogue.

Being so old and so long ago since the install, the Housewarmer is either 45k or 55 k , even the GC number doesn't sort it

So I split the difference..

That calculator give 13.5 kw , and the rads have been just about ok with the old housewarmer, but they could certainly handle a bit more heat OK

BTW other online calcers have give slightly higher results, up around 16kw.

Thats using a roof setting of not a lot of insulation, and this year the roof is coming off and being all redone with insulation, felt, slates etc.... ( a real wallet thrashing time ).

Chris

 

[doitmyself]

That calculator give 13.5 kw , and the rads have been just about ok with the old housewarmer, but they could certainly handle a bit more heat OK

A radiator is not like an electric fire which gives off a constant amount of heat. The output depends on the water temperature. If a rad is rated at 1000 watts, the most you could get out of it is about 1200 watts; and that would mean running at temperatures around 80C. Don't forget that modern condensing boilers run at lower temperatures, so the output from the rads will be less than the catalogue states. Check your radiators using the link I gave; there's no point guessing.

BTW other online calcers have give slightly higher results, up around 16kw.

The one I suggested is probably the most reliable. It is also the one recommended by the Energy Savings Trust, Dept of Environment etc.

Thats using a roof setting of not a lot of insulation, and this year the roof is coming off and being all redone with insulation, felt, slates

Then you should recalculate based on the revised roof insulation. It could reduce your boiler size by 10 or 20%. What about other insulation, e.g cavity walls? There are plenty of low cost or free schemes around at the moment. Check out Energy Savings Trust Grant Search

 

[ceedy]

Will do some more sums on the rads, we don't have the benefit of cavity walls just 20 inches of solid stone ( built in 1702). so no thermo rate for that just been using the 220mm.

Currently the Loft floor is 100mm insulation plus over boarded and piled with stuff, and don't know the thermal transfer rate of Junk in Bin bags LOL.

But will have the Roof slopes foamed and boarded as well soon after the slates have been done.

cheers for the replies..

Chris

 

[doitmyself]

we don't have the benefit of cavity walls just 20 inches of solid stone ( built in 1702). so no thermo rate for that just been using the 220mm.

That should be OK. The U value you have used is 2.1. The U value of an 18" stone wall is 2.23 and a 24" wall is 1.68.

With that type of construction the house will initially take a long time to heat up, due to the high thermal capacity of the walls. But it has the advantage of being able to release heat into the house, which irons out fluctuations in temperature. A bit like a giant storage heater.

 

[ceedy]

Yup alway been a warm home , with its biggest area facing south-west.

But as I got the time just done a complete re calc of all the rooms , all the bedrooms are a little under heated using todays calculators.

So putting a few up sized RAD's while the chance is there , Allowed a bit more i.e 3kw for water ??,, and whichever way I do it it arrives at around . 36k BTU's.

the old House warmer always ran on it lowest setting when first put in , and as it scaled up ? over the years , we just wound up the settings ( and the costs LOL ) .

So even a 18kw for the new install may be a tad large ??.

So All I have to do is decide and convince my installer man .. to go away for his confort zone and put in a 1. Remeha, 2.w-bosch or Baxi Greenstar

Chris

 

[doitmyself]

So even a 18kw for the new install may be a tad large ??.

So All I have to do is decide and convince my installer man .. to go away for his confort zone and put in a 1. Remeha, 2.w-bosch or Baxi Greenstar

The Avanta 18kW system boiler is probably the best choice. The output can easily be reduced at the control panel if it is too high. If your installer is unhappy give Remeha a ring (0118 978 3434) and ask for names of installers in your area.

 

[ceedy]

Looks like Remaha might be off the menu..

Contacted them today , the Avanta Heating only boiler has its outlets on the top , and isn't changable to outlets below , like W-Bosch etc .

Means long lengths of copper zig zagging up round the side and in this case will be a real pain to cram in.
Up to now its a nice compact pipe setup.

Also seems they don't have any installers on their books , they suggested I use one of their Service engineers instead ?? ..Hmmmm!?

C.

 

[migoplumber]

The remeha quinta range has bottom outlets.

 

[ceedy]

The remeha quinta range has bottom outlets.

Yup, pity they're smallest is 45kw.. looking for 18KW approx..

 

[doitmyself]

Looks like Remaha might be off the menu..

Contacted them today , the Avanta Heating only boiler has its outlets on the top , and isn't changable to outlets below , like W-Bosch etc .

They do a stand-off frame which brings the boiler away from the wall so the pipes can run up behind the boiler.

I agree that Remeha are not on the ball when it comes to installers. Ask them for the name of your local stockist; then ask the stockist for the names of two or three installers who have installed Remeha boilers.

 

[ceedy]

Yup looked at the mounting frame, the standoff frame and the pipeing kit , unless any have been been changed recently it looks very much like they all cater for the other models .. ( lets go combi!!)

I.E outlets at the bottom and these items all take fittings from botton to the top . bummer!!

Was trying not to have to make my own frame, to acheive the same result.


C.