Wobbly Toilet !

[Monkey Wrench]

I recently installed a new close-coupled toilet which, despite my attempts to prevent it, wobbles. The customer laid a new floor which is not level and the pan has a long narrow base.
When I installed the toilet I used some plastic shims to stop the pan wobbling, secured it to the floor with screws and then siliconed around the base of the pan which is all that is normally required.

However, the customer called a few days later to advise that the toilet was wobbling so I have been back and, despite spending over an hour using different thicknesses of shims, there was nothing I could do to stop it wobbling.
The pan sits flat on the right hand side and the back but there is about a 6mm gap at the front which gradually reduces to nothing towards the back left side of the pan.

Has anyone please got any suggestions as, something that is normally so simple to resolve, is giving me a lot of grief.

Thank you.

 

[Rickster123]

Big can of expanding foam! Are they letting the silicone go off before sitting on it? Are they slightly larger individuals??

 

[dancinplumba]

Bed it on grout, or rapid setting tile adhesive

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Thank you for the posts.

Big can of expanding foam! Are they letting the silicone go off before sitting on it? Are they slightly larger individuals??

Yes, they did give plenty of time for the silicone to go off and no, they're no large at all.

Bed it on grout, or rapid setting tile adhesive

I had thought of using tile adhesive but, as the rim of the base is only about 12mm thick, wasn't sure how it would work. Obviously I wouldn't need a bed of tile adhesive over the whole base area of the pan but only the rim that touches the floor. Would I use a combination of shims and tiles adhesive or just adhesive ?

Thanks again.

 

[lame plumber]

big lump of pug, then itll never move

 

[dancinplumba]

Use shims and tile adhesive

 

[iiplumbing]

Hi Mr. Wrench

What type of floor is it sitting on?

Tiles or vynil or vinyl (whats the correct spelling?)

 

[iiplumbing]

BTW

I would hate to be the fitter who came round to the customers house to do some repair work (change/re-set a leaking pan connector for instance) and had to inform the customer that the only way i could remove the pan would be by destroying it because it had been set onto a bed of tile adhesive, foam etc.........

there must be a better way and I was just approaching it from a different direction of making good the floor first.

Or just to ask a silly question, and Im sure you have but has the pan been inspected for deformities on the base?

 

[Monkey Wrench]

big lump of pug, then itll never move

Sorry for my ignorance but what on earth is pug ?

Use shims and tile adhesive

Thanks for that. The flooring seems to be plastic (not vinyl), would tile adhesive still work ?

Hi Mr. Wrench

What type of floor is it sitting on?

Tiles or vynil or vinyl (whats the correct spelling?)

The flooring is a kind of plastic material and definitely not vinyl (see pic).

 

[Monkey Wrench]

BTW

I would hate to be the fitter who came round to the customers house to do some repair work (change/re-set a leaking pan connector for instance) and had to inform the customer that the only way i could remove the pan would be by destroying it because it had been set onto a bed of tile adhesive, foam etc.........

there must be a better way and I was just approaching it from a different direction of making good the floor first.

Or just to ask a silly question, and Im sure you have but has the pan been inspected for deformities on the base?

That's a good point iiplumbing, once its installed with tile adhesive it's certainly not going to move but, without smashing the pan, there's no way it's going to come out either.

To be honest, I haven't checked the pan for deformities (which perhaps I should) as the customer bought the fittings over six months ago so they can no longer be returned.

 

[lame plumber]

To be honest, I haven't checked the pan for deformities (which perhaps I should) as the customer bought the fittings over six months ago so they can no longer be returned.

you already said the floor isnt level! so all in all you havent much choice but to bed it on something solid ie pug (sand/cement) or get them to rip up the floor and start again. let them choose solid loo or new floor their choice with pross and cons given to them. remember that a lump of pug will mould to the florr and give a solid level base so no wobble and on a tile if its a weak mix it would break away fairly easily if need be, prob a new loo but their choice

 

[mutley racers]

E=iiplumbing;463423]BTW

I would hate to be fitter who came round to the customers house to do some repair work (change/re-set a leaking pan connector for instance) and had to inform the customer that the only way i could remove the pan would be by destroying it because it had been set onto a bed of tile adhesive, foam
there must be a better way and I was just approaching it from a different direction of making good the floor first.

Or just to ask a silly question, and Im sure you have but has the pan been inspected for deformities on the base?[/QUOTE

In souyh africa we bed all toilets down with cement. Also they used to do it that way here a long time ago. I have actually come across 2 in the past month. A bit of a mission to level though
Al

 

[tamz]

I agree with Lame Plumber and Mutley.
A half bucket of sand and cement 1:5 mix then fit the pan. When it sets screw it down. It will never move.
Btw you will get it out again if it is on vinyl or plastic tiles . Just kick it to the side.
This was how pans were fitted once upon a time. Onto a concrete floor you don't need the screws but do a 1:3 mix.

 

[iiplumbing]

I recently installed a new close-coupled toilet which, despite my attempts to prevent it, wobbles. The customer laid a new floor which is not level and the pan has a long narrow base.
When I installed the toilet I used some plastic shims to stop the pan wobbling, secured it to the floor with screws and then siliconed around the base of the pan which is all that is normally required.

However, the customer called a few days later to advise that the toilet was wobbling so I have been back and, despite spending over an hour using different thicknesses of shims, there was nothing I could do to stop it wobbling.
The pan sits flat on the right hand side and the back but there is about a 6mm gap at the front which gradually reduces to nothing towards the back left side of the pan.

Has anyone please got any suggestions as, something that is normally so simple to resolve, is giving me a lot of grief.

Thank you.

so to summarise

customer laid floor (looks like a nice finish btw)
toilet was initially "wobbly" but shimmed, screwed and siliconed. So its a wooden floor
When you left it first time I presume it wasn't wobbly?
then after a bit if use it became "wobbly" again?

Have you checked that the floor boards whilst not level aren't also moving/loose?

any kind of movement would then tend to "tug" on the screws and if the boarding is allowing the screw to pull through that pan will do what it is doing.

if floor is moving then the pan will forever keep coming loose, no matter what method you use

all I am asking (because it has not been eliminated on this thread) is has it been checked out?

russ

 

[dean.diy]

I cleaned and cut up a 25litre gearbox oil container from some garage pals. The cut pieces
bed nicely under pan rims and stop wobble if the boards are stable(not flat) to start with.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Thank you for all the posts. Although not flat, the floor under the pan is definitely not wobbly, so I guess the best solution is to bed the pan into sand/cement. Would a cement based tile adhesive do the same job ?

Additionally, should the cement base cover the whole area under the pan or just around the edge where the pan sits on the floor ?

Thanks again.

 

[buckley plumb]

some pans are terrible the fixing holes are too far back - I have shimmed before and used the white sticks like sh... silicon

 

[iiplumbing]

I'm not sure about mixture ratios for cement, obviously the stronger it is the more difficult it is to remove if the need arises.

Cement dosent work very well if there is only a small amount inserted, old pans were set on a mound of it (pug, gobbo, muck) and the only way they were removed was with sledge hammer, but they were normally set on a concrete floor and the gobbo bonded to the floor hence it became difficult to remove without breaking pan.

However you have a "plastic" floor. I dont think cement will bond too well to vinyl so you will still need to plug and screw pan to floor to secure it after, the gobbo is just there to act as "packing", so it will need to be strong enough to not crumble (3 in 1 I think was said earlier) and have enough of it to remain located and act as a packer, how much that is is up to you.

Hmmmm, using rapid set "flexible" tile adhesive.... such as weber SPF rapid. Might be a better solution as long as you only use as little as you can, the width of the pan base edge (i.e. 25mm wide?) and a strip running the length of the area that does not meet the floor.

Mark out the pan edge, mix adhesive quite stiff, lay a strip (not too high) then bed the pan on the strip, screw down to set position, wipe away excessive adhesive to ensure that a bead of silicone will be able to be applied after, then let it set (3 hours) and silicone finish. Might be wise to use white adhesive if you are using white silicone.

I'm still curious why the customer laid the floor (so?) badly, when the final finish looks so good.

Hope this is of help without teaching you to suck eggs etc.

Russ

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Thank you for the detailed response Russ.

I did all the first fix pipe work and then the customer laid the floor afterwards with absolutely no regard to making it level. There's also a shower in the room but this has a raised tray (due to waste pipe) so leveling was not an issue. Personally, I'd be happier using white SPF rapid than cement so I'll probably give that a go. I guess I'll have to use packers/shims as well in order to set the pan correctly and to stop it sinking into the adhesive.