Which Worcester Boiler is best?

[LCV]

Hi,

I've had two plumbers round to quote for a new boiler, plumber 1 has listed the Worcester 35CDi Classic system boiler and plumber 2 has listed the Worcester 30i System.

plumber 2 said the 30i system is Worcester's latest model so is more superior to the classic range which has been around for a long time.

However the classic system range is listed as a 'Best Buy' by Which magazine.

I am confused and would appreciate your thoughts. I live in a 5 bedroom house, 3 bathrooms and 1 WC with 4 other people.

Thanks!

 

[village idiot]

None. Fit an Ideal or vogue boiler and an unvented cylinder.

 

[gassafe]

Both are probably good boilers... Iv never had any issues with the previous CDI classic systems... Theve been around & are tried & tested boilers, the new model does not make the old inferior in any way...

There seem to be a lot of Worcester haters on here for some reason so don't be surprised about hearing all sorts of random recommendations

 

[village idiot]

42 Cdi fitted only a year ago, now customer phones to tell me heating comes on whenever it feels like? Have attended and checked programmer and all is sound? Rang WB and an engineer was sent out immediately. I only fit them when customer insists on having them (unfortunately, too many of them want it?).

 

[hammers4spanner]

don't forget to ask for your free pcb and fan if you go for worcester

 

[village idiot]

don't forget to ask for your free pcb and fan if you go for worcester

Yep. PCB has now been changed on a 1yr old 42Cdi. Top of the range boiler my arisis

 

[Rabbitman]

Fit a vaillant lol

 

[macackau]

Why a 30 or 35KW boiler. I'd be surprised you need a 30/35kW boiler. Have heat loss calculations have been carried out to correctly size your boiler?

 

[Worcester]

As usual I bet NONE of them have done a heat loss calc, so have sized up the value of your car in the drive ...

How big is the house in m2? Unless it's a solid wall / black and white, the heat loss will be less than 100w/2, i.e ave 2 bed = 10kW...

We've just sized up a GSHP for a new build 6 bed 400m2 property, comes out at 18kW ...

 

[Chalked]

As usual I bet NONE of them have done a heat loss calc, so have sized up the value of your car in the drive ...

How big is the house in m2? Unless it's a solid wall / black and white, the heat loss will be less than 100w/2, i.e ave 2 bed = 10kW...


We've just sized up a GSHP for a new build 6 bed 400m2 property, comes out at 18kW ...

Ground scource heating underfloor and a boiler heating rads.completely different workings out. But do agree too many boilers are oversized.

 

[LCV]

No one has carried out a heat loss calc. They just asked me how many bedrooms, no. of bathrooms and no. of people. Can I do the heat loss calc myself?

 

[macackau]

You could do them yourself but the professional you would be paying to do the job should be doing it. For example I just replaced a 30kw system boiler in a 3 storey, 4 bed property with a megaflo. Heat loss calculations came out at just over 11kw! With that old boiler they could have heated the building and the water for the two neighbouring houses! Fitted a vaillant 15kw as you can lower the kW output to match your requirements.

 

[Worcester]

Ground scource heating underfloor and a boiler heating rads.completely different workings out. But do agree too many boilers are oversized.

They are the same calcs, same workings out, heat loss is heat loss. - CIBSE DHDG 2015

If it's a combi then the power of the boiler will be based upon water usage not heating. Heating then this is why boilers are so badly installed.

Question - what is the flow temperature and radiator sizing based on deltaT 50 for a condensing gas or oil boiler?

 

[Worcester]

For peace of mind, pop your details into the Stelrad Stars calculator - google it

 

[Chalked]

They are the same calcs, same workings out, heat loss is heat loss. - CIBSE DHDG 2015

If it's a combi then the power of the boiler will be based upon water usage not heating. Heating then this is why boilers are so badly installed.

Question - what is the flow temperature and radiator sizing based on deltaT 50 for a condensing gas or oil boiler?

Off the horse.
Yes heat loss is heat loss. But your underfloor heat load is not based on getting the room to temperature designed in 1 hour. As it is for rads.

 

[Worcester]

Sorry guys I'm not getting off this horse! (Yet)

Why? Because it's one of the reasons we have the least energy efficient homes in Europe.

It's the way we heat them and too often we don't design or control the heating effectively. - How many people even know how to set up a zone controlled by a room stat and TRV's properly ? How many houses only have a single zone and then use the different rooms at different times of day.

I understand that my customers are the unusual 1%, however heating design and control is essential to reducing energy costs, even in houses that we install biomass boilers and traditional rads, it is common for us to manage the heating room by room - honeywell evohome for example - will pay for itself very quickly with reduced energy wastage. - In fact we haven't installed a single system that hasn't added room by room control, and that's not because they have money to through away - it's because they haven't.

Whether it's a new property or a retrofit, replacing the boiler should be the time to look at it all.

Nest and Hive waste of time, they are designed to get you to spend more - think about who sells and promotes them, you need better control than that.

Size it correctly, set the flow temperatures up correctly, control it correctly, it'll save you money - lots of it.

//Horse// //off//

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I'm with VI here, fit a Vogue

 

[GrahamM]

Both are probably good boilers... Iv never had any issues with the previous CDI classic systems... Theve been around & are tried & tested boilers, the new model does not make the old inferior in any way...

There seem to be a lot of Worcester haters on here for some reason so don't be surprised about hearing all sorts of random recommendations

You will probably find these "Worcester haters" have spent many a day working on their garbage over the years.

Admittedly, will more than likely have 5-6 years hassle free use out them before the problems start.
From an engineering point of view every one they ever made is a pig to work on!

 

[Masood]

I'm with VI here, fit a Vogue

Thirded! I only fit Worcester if the customer stubbornly won't see sense.

To give you an idea - one of our esteemed forum members is the boss of a largish plumbers' merchant. He could have had any boiler he wanted. He went for...

Ideal Vogue!

Food for thought...

 

[wetdrip]

Shouldn't Worcester's be rated for their overall boiler performance rather than how difficult it is to work on them space-wise. J.M.H.O.

 

[happyflyer]

Surely if WB are so bad why are they still in business, does anyone know what the UK sales % are for all boilers and if the WB was so bad is it known in the trade, you chaps have a lot of poor in your voices, you could break a company if you really tried hard enough. I fitted one in my house about 6 year ago and not a squeak, now I have said that things will go downhill.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Worcestrr are a contract boiler imho , besides they probably stay in business by the amount of parts they sell .

 

[village idiot]

Like anything in life, if you throw money at selling it through advertisements, then it's at the forefront of people's mind. So when they need a boiler, they want WB fitted. WB probably have at least 1/3 of the boiler market, making them market leaders. Then Vailant, is next and the others fall along.
Ray will give us the percentages when he wakes up.

 

[Masood]

Surely if WB are so bad why are they still in business, does anyone know what the UK sales % are for all boilers and if the WB was so bad is it known in the trade, you chaps have a lot of poor in your voices, you could break a company if you really tried hard enough. I fitted one in my house about 6 year ago and not a squeak, now I have said that things will go downhill.

Worcester are not particularly bad boilers - there are far worse.

It's just that they're not as good as the high price tag and advertising hype makes out.

The reason they're still in business is their huge TV, radio and glossy magazine advertising budget. They're a household name because they put their name out there very aggressively.

 

[wetdrip]

Worcester are not particularly bad boilers - there are far worse.

It's just that they're not as good as the high price tag and advertising hype makes out.

The reason they're still in business is their huge TV, radio and glossy magazine advertising budget. They're a household name because they put their name out there very aggressively.

Well, thats the last time "Nike" get my money