Water Supply from Washing Machine Feed

[Armitage Shanker]

We have a utility room with a washing machine but no sink. Wife wants sink. There is room to fit one and the waste will connect to wahing machine waste but the problem is in the water supply. Currently there is only hot and cold washing machine hose fitting isolators attached to very short (2cm?) lengths of copper pipe coming out of the wall (the hot is not in use).
QUESTION: How can I provide hot and cold water to my new sink from existing provision while still providing cold feed for the washer?

I am only a DIYer but I have done a few plumbing jobs around the house. I dont have the facilities to bend copper pipe or solder but I have used plastic pipe successfully.Hope some kind soul can help. Please.

 

[Rtplumb]

Turn off the hot and cold supply. Remove the washing machine valves and replace them with two 15mm isolation valves. Make sure the iso valves are off and turn on the water. That will give you the start to plumb in a sink and add feeds for the washing machine. Don't forget to drain down through the washing machine valves before removing them.

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Turn off the hot and cold supply. Remove the washing machine valves and replace them with two 15mm isolation valves. Make sure the iso valves are off and turn on the water. That will give you the start to plumb in a sink and add feeds for the washing machine. Don't forget to drain down through the washing machine valves before removing them.

Many thanks. Obvious when you put it like that! I see what you mean. I will post again as I progress with the job and share the snags.

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Ok, here is a follow up. I dont have the confidence to drain the system to replace the washing machine service valve with a standard 15mm service valve. Is there any possible way of connecting the hot water tap tail to the washing machine hot feed service valve. Is there some sort of adaptor on the market? There isn't enough pipe visible to use a freeze kit so I am at a loss.

 

[Ben-gee]

What is your hot water system; gravity cylinder, unvented cylinder, combi boiler?

 

[Armitage Shanker]

What is your hot water system; gravity cylinder, unvented cylinder, combi boiler?

Definitely not a combi boiler: we have a traditional gas boiler. Maybe our system is gravity cylinder? We have hot water storage cylinder on upstairs landing and a cold water tank in the loft. There is an electric pump which distributes hot water and pumps central heating with a gate valve.

 

[Rtplumb]

Definitely not a combi boiler: we have a traditional gas boiler. Maybe our system is gravity cylinder? We have hot water storage cylinder on upstairs landing and a cold water tank in the loft. There is an electric pump which distributes hot water and pumps central heating with a gate valve.

What you could try, seeing as you're a bit nervous about changing the W/M valves. Get some 3/4 iron to 15mm copper reducers or reducing bush and fit them onto the W/M valves. Go to a stockists like Wolesley who will source the correct fittings for you.

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Thanks for reply. Not worried about swapping out the cold feed, its the hot that concerns. Locating the cold water inlet to the storage tank will be a challenge and even if I find it, the gate valve will likely be seized. I could drain the header tank but I did this once before and found air locks in the hot top taps which were a bugger to get get rid of. Dont want all the hassle. I think I will go down the freeze jacket rout. There isnt much pipe showing but even if I can get it partly frozen I should have time to change the valve with only a small spillage (famouse las words?). Anyhow, I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[Ben-gee]

I would try the gate valve from cold water storage to hot water cylinder. If it shuts off you are all set to change the wash/mac to an isolator. If it nearly shuts off then ditto if you’re quick.
If it won’t shut off, or won’t re-open once you’ve finished, then drain the cws tank and replace the gate valve with a full bore lever valve - this will help you in the future.

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Here is an update. I tried the freeze method on the hot washing machine service valve. All was going well till I got the nut loose enough to pull off the valve then "whoose" out cam ice plug followed by water. Luckily I had the new iso valve ready to go so was able to stop the flood in a few seconds. Came close to a heart attack but got the job done. I used speed fit pipes for the hot and cold all seemed to be going well. aSomeone used the washing machine and all was good till second load when another whoose. The speed fit pipe was spat out from the iso valve and I legged it to the stop valve. This was a bigger flood but no damage done. I replaced plastic to iso with a short copper section and then joined plastic to that. So far all good.
QUESTION: why did cold feed iso valve eject the plastic pipe? I used brass olive and wrapped it in ptfe tape. I wondered if I hadn't used enough tape but I didnt fancy experimenting so as I said, I resorted to copperpipe. Another issue is, I used a full bore iso because I thought there would be insufficient water pressure.
QUESTION: was it a mistake to use a full bore iso? Should I go back and replace it with a standard iso?

 

[Ben-gee]

No, full bore is fine.
Did you use the correct insert in the plastic pipe?

 

[Armitage Shanker]

I used the insert with the blue o rings because I heard they were better than the standard plastic ones (John Guest Speed fit Super Seal)

 

[Rtplumb]

I used the insert with the blue o rings because I heard they were better than the standard plastic ones (John Guest Speed fit Super Seal)

Did you tighten up the nut & olive sufficiently? Was the insert fully inserted?

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Insert was fully in and l tightened the nut and olive so there was no sign of a leak when water fully restored. I checked for half a day before allowing washing machine to be used. Maybe it wasn't tight enough given the pressure it was under when washer in use. I guess that is the most likely cause. Is it standard practice to connect plastic to metal iso valves without problems?

 

[Rtplumb]

Insert was fully in and l tightened the nut and olive so there was no sign of a leak when water fully restored. I checked for half a day before allowing washing machine to be used. Maybe it wasn't tight enough given the pressure it was under when washer in use. I guess that is the most likely cause. Is it standard practice to connect plastic to metal iso valves without problems?

Yes it is standard practice. You can connect plastic pipe to any compression fitting as long as you use an insert and compress the olive enough.

When the pipe came out of the iso valve was the insert and olive left in the iso valve?

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Yes it is standard practice. You can connect plastic pipe to any compression fitting as long as you use an insert and compress the olive enough.

When the pipe came out of the iso valve was the insert and olive left in the iso valve?

All a bit of blurr. I think the olive and insert were still on the pipe but not 100%. It could be that the insert was left in the iso. As I say all a bit of blurr given the panic at the time!

 

[Rtplumb]

All a bit of blurr. I think the olive and insert were still on the pipe but not 100%. It could be that the insert was left in the iso. As I say all a bit of blurr given the panic at the time!

Yeah, looks like it wasn't tightened up enough. Is everything ok now you've used copper tails?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I used the insert with the blue o rings because I heard they were better than the standard plastic ones (John Guest Speed fit Super Seal)

Wrong insert you need the one without the blue oring

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/jg-speedfit-plastic-push-fit-pipe-inserts-15mm-10-pack/64318

As the depth isn’t enough for compression

 

[Armitage Shanker]

I appreciate your interest in this issue. Yes, I just put a three inch length of copper into the iso and joined it to the plastic with Speedfit coupler. I feel so much more confident about it and so far no trace of a leak. I saw the idea of using copper on compression joints and then join to plastic on a You Tube discussion thread. The arrangement was labelled as "bomb proof". I was so traumatized by what happened, I liked the idea of "bomb proof".

 

[Armitage Shanker]

Wrong insert you need the one without the blue oring

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/jg-speedfit-plastic-push-fit-pipe-inserts-15mm-10-pack/64318

As the depth isn’t enough for compression

Thanks, I wish I had known that at the time. Because they have the rubber O rings and they cost more, I assumed they would give a better seal so I used that one in the compression joint and the normal ones in the other joints.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks, I wish I had known that at the time. Because they have the rubber O rings and they cost more, I assumed they would give a better seal so I used that one in the compression joint and the normal ones in the other joints.

There the super seal ones just for push fit fittings

 

[Armitage Shanker]

There the super seal ones just for push fit fittings

Thanks Shaun, thats good to know. It would be helpful if the makers were to print that on the packaging.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks Shaun, thats good to know. It would be helpful if the makers were to print that on the packaging.

When speedfit came out they one made that type (super seal) and they had a few claims through with compression popping off under pressure and then they brought the stnd inserts out but agree should be somewhere in big letters not for compression etc