Water doesn't fill under cistern lid

[James1988]

Hey lads,

Trying to fix a toilet for a lady friend (to make a good impression, you know) but having a hard time. It doesn't flush, and the only it does is when I use the hose from the shower and fill up the tank with water. Once it gets to a certain point, it flushes okay, but obviously it isn't practical to keep doing this when she wants to use it!

I've compared it to another toilet in her house, and the water level is around the same on both, only this one doesn't flush.

Any help is so hugely appreciated.

 

[SimonG]

What sort of flush valve?

 

[Riley]

My bet is siphon and knackered diaphragm

 

[James1988]

What sort of flush valve?

It's like two long barrels on a shotgun, with a fatter thing to the right of it, and a green lid at the top of both barrels which doesn't come off.

 

[James1988]

My bet is siphon and knackered diaphragm

Is replacing one an easy enough job for an amateur or is it time to call the pros, if that is the case?

 

[Riley]

Got a piccy

 

[James1988]

Got a piccy

This was taken right after a flush:

 

[SimonG]

New two part syphon to make it easier next time.

 

[Riley]

Bit with the green top will need removing entirely. Flip it over and there will likely be shreds of a plastic diaphragm either replace the diaphragm or replace the whole siphon, as si above says make it A two part one so you don’t have to dismantle the whole toilet again in the future

 

[Riley]

Regarding carry out the repair it really boils down to how confident you are with plumbing

 

[townfanjon]

Be careful pal , you / she maybe better with a plumber or YOU may burn yer bridges with your
“lady friend “

 

[Riley]

All women are better off with a plumber

 

[Ben-gee]

Just make sure she’s out when the plumber comes around two reasons
(i) most of us are irresistible
(ii) you can pretend you did it!

 

[James1988]

Right so there's been a development. I can't get the green lid off. I don't even know how it comes off. But I flushed it again, by the same process of filling it up with shower water, but this time I watched the water get syphoned out and there's a lot of white residue when it's completely empty. It looks and feels like wet ravioli, but white. Is there any chance removing some of this will fix the problem?

 

[Riley]

No no the whole part not just the lid. You will need to remove the toilet cistern and remove the siphon from underneath

 

[Riley]

The residue will have no impact. The siphon is goosed

 

[James1988]

No no the whole part not just the lid. You will need to remove the toilet cistern and remove the siphon from underneath

Sorry misread your first response.

I suppose that's that then. Why does it work when there's more water added to it though, out of curiosity?

 

[Riley]

Less distance for the water to travel up to create the siphonic action. The diaphragm may not be completely shredded and can pull a little water up with it when you pul the flush handle

 

[Best]

To remove that syphon you first have to remove the entire cistern (if it is tight down to pan - ‘close coupled’ type).
That means turning water off and disconnecting the nut below cistern to the fill valve and also nut to overflow.
Then under the pan at cistern you have 2 wing nuts to remove which often are rusted solid.
Also screws holding cistern to wall need removed and often idiots use rusting steel screws, so that is fun.
With cistern off, you can remove syphon large nut below and remove syphon. New syphon might not suit the length of wire link to handle, so beware.
You need new dome rubber washer between pan & cistern and perhaps washer for to fill valve (from copper pipe).
Risks are you could break the cistern, or leave leaks.
And customers often say it is just a wee job.
Personally I would advise getting a plumber.
Look after your lady in ways you are expert in.

 

[Riley]

 

[SimonG]

New two part syphon, new donut washer and new close coupled kit just in case.

 

[SimonG]

Ooooh, and hope last one in didn't stick the cistern to the pan with a full tube of silicone.

 

[SimonG]

Ooooooooh, and don't cross thread the mains cold back onto the inlet valve.

 

[Best]

Definitely can turn out to be one of the biggest ‘small’ jobs you can do in plumbing repairs.
Have spent half a day at some.

 

[Ben-gee]

Oh yes. Those horrible ones with that stupid little plastic elbow that couples the cistern to pan and just disintegrates to a pile of dust or broken shards before your eyes...

 

[James1988]

Thanks for the support lads. We tried.

 

[Stigster]

Oh yes. Those horrible ones with that stupid little plastic elbow that couples the cistern to pan and just disintegrates to a pile of dust or broken shards before your eyes...

AARGH! I hate those so much! The slightest misalignment and the damn things leak and that's if they don't fall to bits as you say. The only time I ever pray (apart from turbulence just prior to landing) is when trying to reuse one of those.

 

[Ben-gee]

It’s one of the few times I resort to sealant (stixall) when working on a lavatory.