Vertical Flue Termination

[PriestyUK]

Hi lads, just been to price a job to replace a OLD big bad boy Ferroli combi boiler which is in a habitable loft space. My problem is the current vertical flue terminates in between two opening velux windows 900mm one side and 400mm the other, pretty much in line, not above them and not below them. Told him this is unsafe and wont meet current standards when I install the new boiler (Viessmann 100-W 30kW Combi) His a chippy by trade, if he converted these windows properly to not open ever again and not by just thumping in a few screws would this then pass reg wise? His not keen on relocating the boiler to be fair Current boiler is proper ducked, and I have isolated and made safe anyhow. Pretty much got the job as his a good mate but your views will be greatly welcomed

 

[kay-jay]

what happens when its all sold and someone puts in an opening window as happened in cornwall, from my understanding dear old beak found the gsr guilty as he saw the window as an opening in the wall, despite it being sealed originally. I would ask gas safe to confirm it is ok first

Won't matter. My understanding is that res have to be adhered to at the time of installation. Alterations after the fact cannot be the responsibility of the engineer.

I would however advise that photographic evidence of a non opening window be recorded and time/date stamped

 

[Millsy 82]

I always used to write it into my quote that certain things had to be done before the work was done and get it signed so that I had written proof that it was done.

As I said though you cant fit something to suit what is not there otherwise you wouldnt be able to fit anything otherwise what happens if you fit a boiler somewhere and somebody decides to fit a window next to it. How can you be held responsible for that.

 

[Millsy 82]

He ordered a boiler flue attached to the hotels wall and told a colleague to nail the window above it shut. The windows were subsequently replaced and were allowed to be opened.
A health and safety expert explained: “This terminal is only suitable for the roof and the choice to put this terminal on the side of the wall was totally wrong. I’ve never seen a terminal like this attached to a wall before.”

This quite clearly states that the flue was installed incorrectly and the window was only NAILED shut not replaced for a non opening window so therefore in breach of regs from the time it was installed

 

[lame plumber]

He ordered a boiler flue attached to the hotels wall and told a colleague to nail the window above it shut. The windows were subsequently replaced and were allowed to be opened.
A health and safety expert explained: “This terminal is only suitable for the roof and the choice to put this terminal on the side of the wall was totally wrong. I’ve never seen a terminal like this attached to a wall before.”

This quite clearly states that the flue was installed incorrectly and the window was only NAILED shut not replaced for a non opening window so therefore in breach of regs from the time it was installed

Mr Fitton said Mingo told a colleague to hammer two two-inch nails through the bathroom window when the pipe was installed in 2005, preventing it from opening as a solution to stop carbon monoxide being pumped into the room.
According to one of Mingo's colleagues, the defendant was "making his instructions up as he went along".
Hodge, said Mr Fitton, later agreed the boiler safe for use.
Mr Fitton added: "There is no documentation that Mr Mingo or Mr Hodge told the hotel of what they had done or the necessity of doing it."
Subsequently, when the hotel replaced its windows during a refurbishment in 2007, the new window could be fully opened.


Read more: Hotel death, faulty boiler | manslaughter charges | Jonathan Mingo & Phillip Hodge | Great Western Hotel, Newquay | Frederick Jackson death | Western Morning News | This is Cornwall
Follow us: @thisiscornwall on Twitter | thisiscornwall on Facebook the fact the hotel then replaced the window woth an opening one then allowed the fumes in that killed the poor sod. the ones who got the blame for that were the gsr chaps, if the window had been left alone no issues apart from the wrong flue type, but fumes werent getting in to start!

 

[Millsy 82]

Mr Fitton said Mingo told a colleague to hammer two two-inch nails through the bathroom window when the pipe was installed in 2005, preventing it from opening as a solution to stop carbon monoxide being pumped into the room.
According to one of Mingo's colleagues, the defendant was "making his instructions up as he went along".
Hodge, said Mr Fitton, later agreed the boiler safe for use.
Mr Fitton added: "There is no documentation that Mr Mingo or Mr Hodge told the hotel of what they had done or the necessity of doing it."
Subsequently, when the hotel replaced its windows during a refurbishment in 2007, the new window could be fully opened.


Read more: Hotel death, faulty boiler | manslaughter charges | Jonathan Mingo & Phillip Hodge | Great Western Hotel, Newquay | Frederick Jackson death | Western Morning News | This is Cornwall
Follow us: @thisiscornwall on Twitter | thisiscornwall on Facebook the fact the hotel then replaced the window woth an opening one then allowed the fumes in that killed the poor sod. the ones who got the blame for that were the gsr chaps, if the window had been left alone no issues apart from the wrong flue type, but fumes werent getting in to start!

So are you skipping over the part of the flue being incorrect? If it had been replaced with a non opening window and noted on a quote that this needs to be done or something like that your rear is covered.

The reason they got fined is bad workmanship by the sounds of the report.

 

[kay-jay]

Mr Fitton said Mingo told a colleague to hammer two two-inch nails through the bathroom window when the pipe was installed in 2005, preventing it from opening as a solution to stop carbon monoxide being pumped into the room.
According to one of Mingo's colleagues, the defendant was "making his instructions up as he went along".
Hodge, said Mr Fitton, later agreed the boiler safe for use.
Mr Fitton added: "There is no documentation that Mr Mingo or Mr Hodge told the hotel of what they had done or the necessity of doing it."
Subsequently, when the hotel replaced its windows during a refurbishment in 2007, the new window could be fully opened.


Read more: Hotel death, faulty boiler | manslaughter charges | Jonathan Mingo & Phillip Hodge | Great Western Hotel, Newquay | Frederick Jackson death | Western Morning News | This is Cornwall
Follow us: @thisiscornwall on Twitter | thisiscornwall on Facebook the fact the hotel then replaced the window woth an opening one then allowed the fumes in that killed the poor sod. the ones who got the blame for that were the gsr chaps, if the window had been left alone no issues apart from the wrong flue type, but fumes werent getting in to start!

Should have got a proper defence....

Joking aside nails only constitute a temporary situation and not a permanent one as a non opening window (with evidence ) would be.

Any future alteration would be down to either the window fitter or the owner or a combination of the two imo

 

[lame plumber]

who ever replaced the window should have been included in the court process, but its easier to do the numpty who used the wrong flue, if that had been correct the outcome woukd have been harder to prove, as one error led to another and so on. so blame the first error maker. Not saying they were blameless but others should have been in front of the beak as well. But its easier to blame the "experts" so cover your arese, personally photos are a waste of space imho as if the judge is laying blame they wont defend you. If it was me, the roof would be tiled over and or the window moved he is a chippy so not an issue then theres no chance of it falling back in your lap in the future if you have photos of a blank roof.

 

[lame plumber]

just another thought, all windows have to have trickle ventilators now to comply with building regs, watch out for that one

 

[PriestyUK]

Building Regulations now require that EVERY new build property is to be fitted with trickle vents.Building Regulations also require that if your home already has trickle vents fitted then you will have to have trickle vents fitted to your replacement windows. IF your property doesn’t have trickle vents fitted then you will not have to go to the expense of having trickle vents fitted to your replacement windows unless, of course, you want to.

Guess what, no trickle vents

 

[lame plumber]

oooh fibber, veluxes have trickle vents