Van broken into last night on drive

[moony]

Climbed over Bosch drill, Milwaukee impact and fluke meter, and took sat nav!

Broken window done at 9pm ! Shocking I didn't hear them - went to empty van of tools at 10 and found it ! Sad thing is I always thought van had alarm on it but no all it has is remote locking! So booked in fit alarm this week now.

 

[moony]

If you have fair play to you - you have excellent control of feelings to understand the criminal. Me? I always think they have a choice, they chose to enter and rob my property - that in turn should give me the choice - first time fair enough - second time I start to get annoyed - 10th time I wouldn't have a choice to make.

 

[Guest123]

A thief is the lowest piece of scum there is. A thief is a failure, a person who cannot make it in life so they have to steal from others and profit from their misery.

Scum also applies to the ones who knowingly buy knocked off gear, they are every bit as bad as the thief that nicked it in the first place.

In Iran they cut off their hands.

 

[WaterTight]

Watertight have you been burgled or had your car or van broken into?

It may also alter your opinion if this was the tenth time you've had it done to you in last 12 years. Nearly once a year. Had kids things stolen so you have to break the news to them, had to cancel holidays because you've had to replace tools - something the missis and kids don't understand - had someone rummaging through your bedroom, the kids are scared to go to bed at night and you can't sleep at night cos it affects you that bad ?

I've never been burgled or had my can/van broken into, no. I also don't doubt being subjected to it repeatedly would alter how tolerant I felt. People can be pushed to any number of breaking points and be coerced into any mental state. But that of course doesn't change the principle of what is right, it just changes their ability to access it, rationally and dispassionately. Which is the job of the law. The parents of murdered children often confide that they would like the killers to suffer torture before being put to death. Few would condemn them for their wishes given what they've been through but I would hope just as few would think the law should be based on the wishes of those out of their mind with grief and hatred. Unfortunately I know that many people at least claim they would like the victims of heinous crimes to be set loose on their attackers. Call me a bleeding heart liberal but I think victims of crime should be given as much help and support as possible but they shouldn't be allowed to decide the fate of the criminals.

As to the free will and choice thing I'd have sort of agreed with you up to relatively recently. I've had my mind mostly changed by the latest book by neuroscientist Sam Harris.

If you've spare hour listen to this (it's very interesting and also quite funny) and see whether you finish listening to it still feeling a criminal has the conscious choice to commit his crimes or whether we might be being fooled by an illusion..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g

 

[christian1985]

I had one of those stickers on my van saying "there are no tools stored in this vechicle overnight" as my freinds van was broken into a month before, after it had been on for two weeks my van was broken into but nothing was in there.

i think the sticker made them want to break into it more for some reason, so they must have been dissapointed when they got inside!

 

[mfgs]

am i the only one who doesn't think people should be allowed to physically attack people for burgling them? even if the robbery itself was violent? well i mean i know i'm not. politicians, judges, the police, they all at least officially agree with me.

it's not even that you could never excuse it - in many cases i think you probably could. i know i would feel the same compulsion (that's excuse it, not justify it.) it's just that it would be a terrifying and terrible society where this would be routinely allowed. so if you want to beat someone up who robs you you should at least recognise that - as understanable an urge it may be - you are not being persecuted by an unfair society by being prohibited from doing so.

also - in a sidepoint, in terms of the robber's free will - if you'd been born into the robbers family, been given his parents, identical childhood experiences, had the same brain, the same genes, the same moment by moment incremental influence of formative experiences and stimului, understood things in the same way and to the same extent and lived his life exactly as he did right up to the point where he walked on to your driveway at 4am, how sure are you that there would have been something in you that would have stopped you commiting the same crime?

I dont believe that hurting someone caught burgling you is right, but unfortunately the law isnt strict enough to impose any kind of real punishment and these people get cautions or community service and just go on robbing more people. If I caught someone trying to break into my van I would hit them and give them a bit of a beating (unless he was really big haha) and not bother calling the police. How are you even meant to detain someone and wait for what? half an hour for the police to arrive. Its nearly impossible to keep one man detained on your own for that period of time without breaking some law or something that will get you in more trouble than the criminal.

It may not be right, but I would rather give him and smack and take the punishment of the law than leave it for the police to deal with and see him get away with no proper punishment from the police.

 

[markfxy]

Ive had my van broken into 3 times the first time I had mine and my dads tools on the van he's a chippy and lost some expensive tools if I had caught them I would have battered them senseless and yes I think it's right, what would you have done watertight call them a taxi?

 

[WaterTight]

Yes. Preferably one with flashng lights on the top. But you know taxis, always late.

When you say you'd have battered them because you 'think it's right,' how are you defining 'right' there? In the sense of what is morally right? Or perhaps it's only right because the police won't beat him up for you. Which amounts to same thing. There are many places in the world where this form of 'justice' is commonplace. They are also invariably the most abhorent to live in, with the poorest human rights records and where people live in terror of the police and the state. I'd much rather live somewhere where the police are accused of being too soft on criminals than the other way round. Someone once said, "the police will never ask for less powers.' They need to be kept on the weaker side of the balance in my opnion.


Or maybe you think preferably nobody would be subjected to a violent assault for theft but that, in lieu of a sufficiently long custodial sentence, it's best you dish out 'street jutice' with a beating so that they get some sort of punishment? That sounds more reasonable than the first position. But I still don't think it can be justified. And will your beating make him less likely to re-commit an offence? Or are you just adding to the general atmosphere of misery, violence and deprevation that has formed his life so far? He is probably less likely to commit an offence against you again, true.

 

[WaterTight]

The other point about a 'beating' is it's hardly a precise art. If you're enormous, hard as nails and a trained fighter and the offendor is a young brat then you can probably smack him about in quite a controlled manner at little risk to either of you. But if you're more evenly matched who knows which way it will go. One excessive punch which connects at an unfortunate angle and someone could suffer permanent damage. There's an article on the BBC at the moment about mugging where one guy was heatbutted and can no now longer open one eye properly. People suffer permanent brain damange during fights all the time. I know a bunch of men talking about giving people a beating is going to bring out the bravado but who here could honestly say they'd be totally confident of the outcome of a fight with someone they caught trying to nick their tools.