track pipe in concrete

[SafeGasInstall]

I have a job where I need to bring new gas and mains water supply ! And the only way of doing it is to run them in the floor .
Now do i run the track pipe and mdpe in the concrete below insulation and screed as I will be installing UFH ?


thx

 

[Killy Bing]

Can you not put a duct in?

 

[Killy Bing]

Or another idea, istead of using tracpipe use Gas MDPE for the run, will be much much cheaper

 

[Atouchofgas]

Gas plastic internally?

 

[mfgs]

You cant use yellow mdpe inside a building. Its for external use only.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

has anyone run a truck pipe in the concrete ? would i need to sleeve 25mdpe for mains

 

[Killy Bing]

You cant use yellow mdpe inside a building. Its for external use only.

Shhh just noticed, yup no pe internally.

For some odd reson i thought this was going to an outbuilding.... Wtf

 

[IDCHAPPY]

We done a whole block of flats with trac pipe under the screed mate, it's been fine for 8 years so far... pricey gear though especially for the bigger stuff(28mm+)

 

[kozak1968]

I ve run it under celotex and then had underfloor heating above then screed.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

So it's ok to be in the concrete below insulation ! What about MDPE ?

 

[kozak1968]

I've also ran the water main under the celotex. But not in mdpe. Can't see a problem as long as the gas and water are apart. The main would need to be insulated.

 

[AWheating]

for trac pipe - run it ontop of the concrete, band it down and cut and lay insulation on top for underfloor.

as for water main change to pipe in pipe speedfit style or maybe even make your own insulated pipe in pipe with some speedfit, ducting and lagging.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

What did you use for water just some plastic pipe work like polyplumb ? What insulation did you use 12mm ?

 

[Ermintrude]

It's in celotex so just 22mm?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

So run them on top of the cement bace under the 100mm insulation and then ufh and screed ?

Cheers every one !

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes but sleeve gas so insulation voids don't fill up!!

 

[Reg Man]

Or fill the void with sand.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

If I run a 28mm copper in a 1" 1/4 will that be ok ?

 

[kozak1968]

Trac pipe classed as pipe in pipe so along as both ends are above the finished floor it can vent itself if there is a leak.

 

[Ermintrude]

Trac pipe classed as pipe in pipe so along as both ends are above the finished floor it can vent itself if there is a leak.

What? It's one pipe? When u connect it up is it like a flue I.e you make internal connection then the external one ..... No .

 

[Ermintrude]

Stan, think sleeve needs to be non combustible and mechanically stable. Bit of iron tube? Or copper?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Trac pipe classed as pipe in pipe so along as both ends are above the finished floor it can vent itself if there is a leak.

I agree with that but had a quote for track pipe and nearly had a hart attack , so thinking of running 28mm copper in 1" 1/4 and each end venting out . Is that ok?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Stan, think sleeve needs to be non combustible and mechanically stable. Bit of iron tube? Or copper?

I agree with that , but track pipe it self is stainless still with some plastic cover and we are allowed to put that in concrete without additional protection , as long as there is no joints !!

 

[Gray0689]

You can use the plastic coated copper

 

[Ermintrude]

Plastic is bonded directly to stainless so no void and is not classified as a sleeve but mfr provided protection.

Don't think any gas pipe can be installed in concrete. Screed yes.

If there is 50mm of screed above duct plastic might be acceptable but I probs use denso when in screed. But I would in this situation mix a screed up and place it around denso pipe or use a steel pipe as a sleeve ( when poss)

 

[Atouchofgas]

page 16 8.4 would disagree with this
http://www.tracpipe.co.uk/uploads/downloads/FGP_027UK_REV_March_2012.pdf

 

[Ermintrude]

Yeh it says concrete then says pour screed. You can install in screed but not a monolithic concrete slab due to structural forces on pipe.

 

[Ermintrude]

Check your viper book or what ever training material you have regarding pipe work

 

[Atouchofgas]

Yes, if you read further down 8.4.2 etc it's say you have to protect it against movement in concrete.

 

[Reg Man]

There has been a lot discussion between regulators and Tracpipe over the years about this question. I think it came down to following Tracpipes installation instructions.

 

[Gray0689]

Are we not told to refer to MIs in any course!

 

[kozak1968]

What? It's one pipe? When u connect it up is it like a flue I.e you make internal connection then the external one ..... No .

Its classed as inter and outer. Except if you snag the yellow outer sleeve and then you should repair with the special tape.

 

[kozak1968]

Tracpipe will send a rep to site and show how to install.....

 

[Ermintrude]

Ok ??? So Yorkshire coated eliminates requirement to sleeve through a cavity? Awesome.

 

[Ermintrude]

Ok so track pipe installation instructions do not show track pipe in concrete

It's in the screed


Track pipe coating is not a secondary pipe or a sleeve but a protective layer,

Track pipes instructions require you to sleeve pipe.

Thanks. Track pipe rep probably come to site and tell you to read instructions before calling him?