Torbeck Valve

[mike57]

Fitted a new Torbeck inlet valve to toilet cistern a couple of days ago. Appeared to work perfectly - no noise or vibration at all when shutting off. But 24 hours later it's producing a loud thump in the pipes (pipe hammer?) every time the valve shuts off.

The valve is fed directly from the mains, whch I had to shut off to install it. It's fitted with the LP restrictor.

I presume this must be a problem with air having got in to the system - I've released some air through the downstairs taps, but can't locate any more.

Any ideas on how to rectify? The key aspect to me is that this was working perfectly for a while.

 

[Blake]

could have dragged a bit of muck into the valve which may be causing the problem. If there is an isolation to the valve, try restricting the flow a little to see what effect that has.

 

[mike57]

Thanks bronzino. There's no isolator in the supply line. I've tried both increasing and decreasing the mains flow at the stopcock to no effect. If you run a tap while the cistern is filling then the problem is reduced, but certainly not cured. Would have thought muck unlikely, at the cistern must have been flushed a couple of dozen times before the problem started. It began suddenly and not progressively, which is why I thought some air must have settled somewhere. The valve itself still seems to be shutting off cleanly, with no leakage through it andno bounce detectable to the eye or the touch.

 

[dontknowitall]

There are two different flow restrictors that come with these. Did you fit one? If so, will the other fair any better?

 

[REDSAW]

the existing valve was a ball-cock?.

torbeck shut of almost instantly causing a jump in the pipe.
find where the supply pipe is loose and secure, it may be downstairs.
fitting a flexi to valve may help.

 

[tackleburger]

Torbeck's are rubbish and troublesome in my experience. LP is that not low pressure and if you are off the mains you should fit the HP one high pressure. turning the stopcock won't reduce pressure which is probably the issue open it right up and fit the other restrictor. It is worth checking it is clean as stated. If none of these work live with it until you can get a fliudmaster fill valve. B&Q sell them for about 12 quid.

 

[mike57]

Thanks REDSAW. Yes, this replaced a ball-cock. Afraid that if the supply pipe is loose then it almost certainly runs below the bathroom floor, which is extremely difficult to access....

But the odd thing is that the new valve worked fine, with no problem or noise at all, for the first 24 hours....

 

[mike57]

Thanks tackleburger. I actually did buy a Fluidmaster one first, but then found it's physically too big to fit in the cistern.

 

[mike57]

Folks - Thanks all for your various (and very different!) suggestions.

Can I take you back to my original post and remind you that this valve worked perfectly for 24 hours or so (several dozen flushes) after installation. Only then did I suddently get loud pipe noises. That's why I came to the conclusion that there was probably nothing wrong with the installation inself, the restrictor type, the water pressure etc, but that the problem was probably that some air had found its way to where it shouldn't be. Does that sound likely?

Otherwise I can change the LP restrictor for the HP one, but it's difficult to know what best to try if that doesn't work.

 

[Ivan_Leak]

my torbeck bottom entry valve i fitted in my house is exactly the same with a bit of a thud after filling, different story when its your own house, still on the things to do list i suppose...

 

[mike57]

my torbeck bottom entry valve i fitted in my house is exactly the same with a bit of a thud after filling, different story when its your own house, still on the things to do list i suppose...

Thanks. Brilliant, isn't it. I've now replaced the LP restrictor with the HP restrictor (which I shouldn't have needed to, as my water pressure isn't that high) and the valve is shutting with a thud, but without all the pipework noise that it had been causing. I say "brilliant" because this is what it says on the Torbeck's instruction leaflet - "Reduces water hammer". Believe that if you will!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

another way around this is if you still have the fluid master get a fluid master flush valve and re furb the entire cistern insides it should be trouble free for years the trouble with torbeck is for years it was a excellent piece of kit,then they messed with the design it became very unreliable and most plumbers wont fit them now,i went over to fluid master a few years ago have not looked back,you could always cut a ballofix or service valve into the inlet and throttle the pressure down that way

 

[mikegas]

You could fit a wonder valve on the feed

 

[Ivan_Leak]

absolutely Mike, not a good product in my opinion, thud still occurs with LP or HP restictor fitted, although pressure isn't exacly great anyways, and i have a isolation valve which i closed over a touch with stil the same results. Needless to say i will be avoiding torbeck at all costs, only fitted it as extendable arm made it easy to get round tight gap with syphon

 

[franky]

You can also get problems because the two hooks holding the arm on the torbeck are a bit loose. If you take off the arm squash these down a bit (not to rough though) and then put back on the arm that can sort out the problem.

 

[BLOD]

I've found torbeck valves pants over the last couple of years.
If you can make a fluid master one fit then do it - they even do one with a brass shank so you don't trash the thread.

hth blod

 

[mike57]

Thanks, everyone, for all your suggestions. I get the message - nobody's got a good word to say for Torbeck valves, and numerous other people have experienced, or are experiencing, exactly the same problems as I am. If Torbecks are that bad it seems amazing that all the big retailers continue to sell them.

I'd love to try all your suggestions, but there's a limit to how many times you can remove and re-install these things before the plastic screwthreads wear out!

I've tried to contact the manufacturer, Opella, but helpfully they have shut down their phone lines for a fortnight's Christmas & New Year break. Some commitment to customer care! I will write to them and see what they have to say.

Does anyone know what I have to do to close down this thread, or does it just run and run......

 

[dontknowitall]

It lets by ...

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

It lets by ...

alot LOL

 

[mike57]

Right, hopefully we can now put this thread to bed.

I finally got hold of Opella, who make the Torbeck valve, after their Christmas shutdown. It was immediately apparent that they know all about this problem, though they don't like talking about it! They claim that instances of water hammer, or whatever you want to call it, with their valves are very rare. But they have told me that they have gone to the trouble of laying down plastic moulding tools to produce two new component parts to address precisely this situation - that would have cost them a considerable sum of money, so they haven't done it for the fun of it! They refer to the parts as a "Damper Kit" and, they say, they will provide the kit to anyone who contacts the company and complains of this problem. The kit - I now have one - consists of two small plastic parts to replace the corresponding ones in the purchased valve. They are quite straightforward to fit and, it appears, instantly rectifies that awful "thud" noise when the valve shuts.

This begs the question why, as Torbeck are clearly aware of the problem, them don't warn customers in advance or alternatively fit the valve with these new parts as standard. I have asked them, but they haven't replied. There is nothing on the product packaging, nothing on the instruction leaflet, nothing on their website. It would only need a simple "Warning: If you experience water hammer after installing this valve, please contact Opella for a modification kit." to save a lot of customers from a lot of inconvenience. From the number of comments about Torbeck water hammer on this forum, and on other websites, a bit of "up front" honesty from Torbeck with their customers certainly wouldn't go amiss.

 

[franky]

Thats good to know I had the same problem went to my merchants and they said about squashing the clips it stopped the problem but i didn't think it was a good fix