Those of you with apprentices

[cr0ft]

So what you are saying cr0ft is that their apprenticeship last for just one year then?

I don't think I've said that anywhere at all, I think you've said I've said that

I don't think paying a very capable apprentice £7.50 per hour in year 2 is exploitation to be honest, neither do I feel sending the same capable apprentice out to do small jobs within his capabilities on his own is. I feel that's building his confidence and (yes, shocking I know) helping the business to grow too which is surely what taking on staff is about.

Would I leave him doing a central heating install? No, of course not, because he's not ready for it. At the moment he helps me out for 2 days a week doing the small jobs knowing I am always on the end of the phone if he is unsure about anything. 2 days a week he works with me on larger projects where I continue to spend time teaching him, answering questions etc. 1 day a week at college as per every other apprentice. Coming up to his mid 20s he should of course have more responsibility in keeping with his life experience and the higher wage he gets paid.

Now would I let my 17 year old apprentice go out on his own next year? Not a chance. He will be with me all the way through his apprenticeship. It's a question of not setting people up to fail. I learned far more by going out on my own and doing small jobs than I ever did watching anyone else.

It's foolish to make blanket statements like 'exploitation' and other things as each apprentice needs to be assessed on a case by case basis. There are many 'fully qualified' plumbers I've seen who I would not have working in my house again, I would happily have this guy working in it.

There would be no point in me sending staff out on jobs before they are ready as it would dent his confidence and harm my reputation.

You can't tell me that no firm sends apprentices out on jobs on their own, it happens regularly around here. No harm in it at all when they are ready and capable in my opinion.

 

[cr0ft]

I think no apprentice should be left on their own on a job, when passed level 2 and they are an improver then maybe, for one thing its not what the custards are paying for

This is the great thing about this forum, we can always agree to disagree. I think the customer is paying to have a job done by someone who knows what they are doing. I place very little emphasis on bits of paper to be honest, much more on what someone can do properly and to a high standard.

I think most customers feel the same, it's just not something that's important to them. No one in 6 years has asked me if I am qualified (or to prove it) before they let me work in their home. I do not have an NVQ to my name, should I not be working in someone's home then?

 

[WaterTight]

my current apprentice is also my girlfriend. anyone else been in that situation?

 

[Millsy 82]

my current apprentice is also my girlfriend. anyone else been in that situation?

You must be mad! I go to work to get away from mine! It's the only time I can drink tea and smoke in peace. Lol.

 

[Rickster123]

my current apprentice is also my girlfriend. anyone else been in that situation?

Takes all the fun out of top heavy customers!

 

[newcastle phill]

my current apprentice is also my girlfriend. anyone else been in that situation?

What......with your girlfriend ?????

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

This is the great thing about this forum, we can always agree to disagree. I think the customer is paying to have a job done by someone who knows what they are doing. I place very little emphasis on bits of paper to be honest, much more on what someone can do properly and to a high standard.

I think most customers feel the same, it's just not something that's important to them. No one in 6 years has asked me if I am qualified (or to prove it) before they let me work in their home. I do not have an NVQ to my name, should I not be working in someone's home then?

Thats not what I said Croft, is it.

 

[mfgs]

Well he was actually ready this morning so he came to work. We had a chat first thing before we started on site and he was told that he is certainly not due a pay rise and wont be for some time, which he seemed quite shocked about despite me making this clear when taking him on in the first place. It was also pointed out the areas in which he needs to improve. All in all I think he no longer thinks he is at the standard he seemed to believe. He had a bit of a sulk in the morning and didn't really speak much, but perked up this afternoon. I am looking forward to hopefully seeing a change in his attitude to prove himself.

 

[rpm]

Give the donkey a little nibble on a carrot when he does do or say something right just to show your not a mean old git, bit like training a dog if you see what I mean.

 

[mfgs]

Give the donkey a little nibble on a carrot when he does do or say something right just to show your not a mean old git, bit like training a dog if you see what I mean.

I'm not mean and I'm certainly not old haha. Ever since he has started with me, if he has been doing well I have taken him down the café for lunch etc, little things like that.

 

[rpm]

I'm not mean and I'm certainly not old haha. Ever since he has started with me, if he has been doing well I have taken him down the café for lunch etc, little things like that.

Sorry mate, sounds like your well ahead of me. Only thing I buy em is a coffee lol Mind you if your over 35 thats old to him. :tounge_smile:

 

[mfgs]

Sorry mate, sounds like your well ahead of me. Only thing I buy em is a coffee lol Mind you if your over 35 thats old to him. :tounge_smile:

He has always been rewarded and will continue to be if he does well, if anything I may have been too full of praise for him in the past for him to start to think he is better than he is. Well I am still young to him then, I am 27.

 

[cr0ft]

my current apprentice is also my girlfriend. anyone else been in that situation?

No!! Did she become your girlfriend before or after you employed her. And are you old enough to be her dad or not??

Will need to know the answers to these questions before I know how to reply lol.

 

[cr0ft]

Thats not what I said Croft, is it.

Nope, I was being rhetorical. My point I am trying to make though is just that I place very little value on qualifications and much more on what people can do and their work ethic/standards! No offence intended!

 

[chris watkins]

So what you are saying cr0ft is that their apprenticeship last for just one year then?

I don't think I've said that anywhere at all, I think you've said I've said that

It's foolish to make blanket statements like 'exploitation' and other things as each apprentice needs to be assessed on a case by case basis. There are many 'fully qualified' plumbers I've seen who I would not have working in my house again, I would happily have this guy working in it.
There would be no point in me sending staff out on jobs before they are ready as it would dent his confidence and harm my reputation.

You can't tell me that no firm sends apprentices out on jobs on their own, it happens regularly around here. No harm in it at all when they are ready and capable in my opinion.

You are right cr0ft it was foolish of me & once again it shows me the inherent problems with this type of communication.
As we do, I made some assumptions based on your previous postings which were clearly incorrect.
In my mind a 2nd year apprentice is 17 - 18 years a lot different, as you say, to someone in there mid twenties.
You did suggest that his productivity determining his rate of pay which I would not necessarily agree with having seen a number of firm who clearly do exploit them.

It is clear from your full & well put post in response, that you do not exploit them & train them correctly, including letting them work on there own when ready. (they don't seem to do PJ's like we did, which as you say, is where I learnt the most important lessons in plumbing).

Sorry Cr0ft !!! & thank you for pointing out the error of my ways. Chris

 

[TBServices]

I can't be bothered. I've never had an apprentice who wasn't more hassle than they were worth. And training up the next generation of under cutting kids isn't exactly my priority - I can't imagine I'd have the means to keep a lad on once his wages had to go up.

 

[cr0ft]

You are right cr0ft it was foolish of me & once again it shows me the inherent problems with this type of communication.
As we do, I made some assumptions based on your previous postings which were clearly incorrect.
In my mind a 2nd year apprentice is 17 - 18 years a lot different, as you say, to someone in there mid twenties.
You did suggest that his productivity determining his rate of pay which I would not necessarily agree with having seen a number of firm who clearly do exploit them.

It is clear from your full & well put post in response, that you do not exploit them & train them correctly, including letting them work on there own when ready. (they don't seem to do PJ's like we did, which as you say, is where I learnt the most important lessons in plumbing).

Sorry Cr0ft !!! & thank you for pointing out the error of my ways. Chris

No worries matey! Apology appreciated.

 

[oz-plumber]

I can't be bothered. I've never had an apprentice who wasn't more hassle than they were worth. And training up the next generation of under cutting kids isn't exactly my priority - I can't imagine I'd have the means to keep a lad on once his wages had to go up.

That's a means to an end.

You just have to find the right kid / person.
I've done well out of the last couple of kids I have had.
When they are reliable, good workers they can be of benefit.

The hardest thing is keeping them on track...to many distractions.

Had one that had a mortgage - couldn't keep him away from work.
He used to get upset with me if I turned up late.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Had one that had a mortgage - couldn't keep him away from work.
He used to get upset with me if I turned up late.

Yep - the finest kind of employee - a 28 yr old bloke with a mortgage he can't afford, 2 kids and pregnant wife.

So long as you keep paying him well, he will work like a duracell bunny.

 

[cdodds2004]

interesting read. im thinking of taking a apprentice on! Not sure what to do now to be honest! I was thinking of going after a mature lad that wants to re-train!

 

[TFGplumbing]

I have had an apprentice for 3 months now. He is doing ok, and just ok. I have put a lot of time in to teaching him etc but at the moment the only real thing he is good for is tidying up and getting the tools. Last night I get a text message at 9.30 which reads "Alright mate have just been thinking, iv been with you a while now and I think I have progressed a lot in that time so id like to suggest a raise in wages please mate. Lemme know what you think"

He is on £3.30 an hour, so above the minimum wage for a first year apprentice, but he certainly doesn't earn me any more than I pay him in a week. To be honest the cheek of asking has really wound me up. He has been far from the model employee to date and I have given him possibly more chances than I should have done. Examples of this are taking breaks for cigarettes when it has been made clear that the only time for smoking is lunch time, after doing any small amount of physical work I have caught him just sitting around having a break or walking off to the shop, not being ready when I pick him up from his house in the mornings. I am now thinking about getting rid of him if this is a sign of things to come. I never once asked for a pay rise while I was an apprentice, I was happy for the opportunity to be taught the trade I wanted to do.

Anyone had a similar experience and how did you deal with it?

****... kids these days... send him up a loft full of rock wool; too saw a cistern in half because it wont fit through the hatch and give him some nice knuckle grazing jobs - he'll probably do one.

When I'am ready to get an apprentice - I'am going to college to hand pick an nice free range, intelligent, grafter!

 

[Toxic Ted]

They're not like bl00dy chickens ........you cant just wander in and pick the one you fancy!

 

[rpm]

They're not like bl00dy chickens ........you cant just wander in and pick the one you fancy!

Shame though,

 

[TFGplumbing]

They're not like bl00dy chickens ........you cant just wander in and pick the one you fancy!

Why not? haha I could spot the dud's straight away. I want bright eyed & bushy tailed! Free range organic

 

[Ray Stafford]

They're not like bl00dy chickens ........you cant just wander in and pick the one you fancy!

I rather suspect that you can.

If you rang your local college and told them that you had a vacancy for an apprentice, they would roll out the red carpet, and line up the "stock" for inspection.

If you are going to put yourself to the trouble of having an apprentice, I reckon its worth putting yourself to the trouble of thinking about how to select them. I hear loads of stories about "I took on my sisters lad as an apprentice, but it didn't work out..." I'm not surprised. If you ran a competitive process to hire an apprentice in a town of middling size, the chances are that you will get 20 candidates better than your nephew.

Hiring is a business process, and should be treated as such. I bet most people put more effort into researching their next core drill than their next apprentice, and then squinny when it doesnt work out!

 

[chris watkins]

interesting read. im thinking of taking a apprentice on! Not sure what to do now to be honest! I was thinking of going after a mature lad that wants to re-train!

Please don't, go for a 18/19 year old.
What are the youngsters suppose to do with their lives until someone like you will give them a start!!!!!

 

[mfgs]

Just thought I would update this. Clearly my little chat with him didn't work. I made it very clear to him every morning I pick him up, he is to be waiting outside for me so I don't have to hang about and wait for him like I have been. The morning after our chat I pull up and he isn't there, his mum came out and apologised saying he had just woken up and basically begged me to give him another chance. So I did, I waited for him and gave him another talking to.

Then on the Thursday he was ready and waiting, good attitude etc. Thought I may have made a breakthrough. Friday comes and we are on site decommissioning and old heating system and rigging up temporary water and toilets etc. He decides to sneak off for a cigarette which he has been told numerous times is not allowed other than at lunch. Then yesterday he wasn't ready and waiting outside, I hung around for 5 mins and drove off. I got a phone call from him with him practically blaming me for not waiting for long enough as he was ready but just didn't see me as apparently he was only opening the curtains once every ten minutes to have a look!!! Safe to say, he no longer has a job and I am actively looking for a new apprentice.

 

[rpm]

There is only so much a man can do and if the kid can`t be on time and follow rules then the Red card it is.

 

[PlumbersMate]

Just thought I would update this. Clearly my little chat with him didn't work. I made it very clear to him every morning I pick him up, he is to be waiting outside for me so I don't have to hang about and wait for him like I have been. The morning after our chat I pull up and he isn't there, his mum came out and apologised saying he had just woken up and basically begged me to give him another chance. So I did, I waited for him and gave him another talking to.

Then on the Thursday he was ready and waiting, good attitude etc. Thought I may have made a breakthrough. Friday comes and we are on site decommissioning and old heating system and rigging up temporary water and toilets etc. He decides to sneak off for a cigarette which he has been told numerous times is not allowed other than at lunch. Then yesterday he wasn't ready and waiting outside, I hung around for 5 mins and drove off. I got a phone call from him with him practically blaming me for not waiting for long enough as he was ready but just didn't see me as apparently he was only opening the curtains once every ten minutes to have a look!!! Safe to say, he no longer has a job and I am actively looking for a new apprentice.

Stinking attitude

 

[brum]

My previous employer took on this apprentice without conferring with me said apprentice stayed in same village as me he was worse than a chocolate fireguard that was the beginning of the end im now self employed..brum

 

[rpm]

My previous employer took on this apprentice without conferring with me said apprentice stayed in same village as me he was worse than a chocolate fireguard that was the beginning of the end im now self employed..brum

I had that done to me once brum, the factory was not easy to get via public transport and my boss took a guy on THEN approached me about giving him a lift in to work saying "You both live in the same town so...." Man I was mad about it and told him so.

 

[Rickster123]

Just thought I would update this. Clearly my little chat with him didn't work. I made it very clear to him every morning I pick him up, he is to be waiting outside for me so I don't have to hang about and wait for him like I have been. The morning after our chat I pull up and he isn't there, his mum came out and apologised saying he had just woken up and basically begged me to give him another chance. So I did, I waited for him and gave him another talking to.

Then on the Thursday he was ready and waiting, good attitude etc. Thought I may have made a breakthrough. Friday comes and we are on site decommissioning and old heating system and rigging up temporary water and toilets etc. He decides to sneak off for a cigarette which he has been told numerous times is not allowed other than at lunch. Then yesterday he wasn't ready and waiting outside, I hung around for 5 mins and drove off. I got a phone call from him with him practically blaming me for not waiting for long enough as he was ready but just didn't see me as apparently he was only opening the curtains once every ten minutes to have a look!!! Safe to say, he no longer has a job and I am actively looking for a new apprentice.

Dont give up on apprentices all together. Some are great, hard working, reliable, decent. It's a shame you've been let down but it's his loss really. Good luck in the search.

 

[mfgs]

Dont give up on apprentices all together. Some are great, hard working, reliable, decent. It's a shame you've been let down but it's his loss really. Good luck in the search.

I am not giving up. I have my local college sending me over the CV's of all the people they have on there books who need an apprenticeship. I will look to interview a few selected ones by the end of the week and will hopefully have one on trial by next week if all goes to plan. Or if any of them seem up to scratch.

 

[tomplumb83]

Most apprentices will learn the job given time. Some will take longer than others. Some will take a lot longer than others.
Providing he turns up on time, does as he's told and pays attention you can't really asks any more.
I started my apprenticeship in about 2000. The council lads were on about £55 pw. I was one of two that were the highest paid, £75 pw.

mfgs - It sounds like you've had a lucky escape with your apprentice.
The bloke who I started work would never have picked me up let alone wait for me.
Plenty looking for work. I don't think any should be asking for a pay rise until they've finished their level 2. Not at £3.30 an hour anyway.
* Top Tip - Don't employ a smoker. Or a thief....

 

[Rickster123]

Most apprentices will learn the job given time. Some will take longer than others. Some will take a lot longer than others.
Providing he turns up on time, does as he's told and pays attention you can't really asks any more.
I started my apprenticeship in about 2000. The council lads were on about £55 pw. I was one of two that were the highest paid, £75 pw.

mfgs - It sounds like you've had a lucky escape with your apprentice.
The bloke who I started work would never have picked me up let alone wait for me.
Plenty looking for work. I don't think any should be asking for a pay rise until they've finished their level 2. Not at £3.30 an hour anyway.
* Top Tip - Don't employ a smoker. Or a thief....

A smoker or a thief?! The two deadly sins!

 

[tomplumb83]

Haha Rights for smokers

 

[tomplumb83]

What 17 yo smokes anyway?!

 

[rpm]

A smoker or a thief?! The two deadly sins!

I`m sure there`s a film title in there somewhere :tounge_smile:

 

[TFGplumbing]

pretty sure smoking is a harmless pastime enjoyed by millions...

 

[Millsy 82]

This time don't pick them up in the mornings make them meet you at your office/home if they are not there by 8 then you will be gone and they will have to make there own way to site. It will give you a bit more extra time in the morning.

As for smoking, I am a smoker and I do smoke during the day but I don't just sit there and smoke I tend to sort things out like the back of the van at the same time, although you'd never notice half the time.

 

[R.Oak]

I dont smoke any more but if i had an apprentice i would probably allow him to smoke but to ask me beforehand. If there is time he can nip out for one, taking rubbish or finished with tools on his way, but if we're busy he can wait and smoke later. Cant get any more fair than that surely?

 

[mfgs]

Well my local college sent me over 6 CV's today so I will be looking over them this evening and arranging some interviews. One of them is a girl, not to sure how I would feel about employing a female apprentice.

 

[Masood]

Well my local college sent me over 6 CV's today so I will be looking over them this evening and arranging some interviews. One of them is a girl, not to sure how I would feel about employing a female apprentice.

Mine is female. There are good and bad aspects to this.

 

[TFGplumbing]

Well my local college sent me over 6 CV's today so I will be looking over them this evening and arranging some interviews. One of them is a girl, not to sure how I would feel about employing a female apprentice.

My opinion on this is that she must really want to be a plumber and might be worth a go.

 

[rpm]

Isn`t there a company somewhere which is all girl / ladies plumbers? Sure I read somewhere that they are mega busy.

 

[Masood]

Isn`t there a company somewhere which is all girl / ladies plumbers? Sure I read somewhere that they are mega busy.

Yep. Called Stopcocks. I hate the idea of women-only or men-only firms.

 

[rpm]

I`ve got a customer who has her sani serviced and cleaned every year but if the company send anyone but me she refuses to let them in. Took 3 years to gain her trust before that hubby had to be there, dunno why as I`ve never asked but guess there is a reason. Reckon more companies should give the girls a start myself.

 

[mfgs]

Mine is female. There are good and bad aspects to this.

How is she finding it? I am just worried the physical aspect of the job may be to hard for an 18 year old girl.

 

[TBServices]

Mine is female. There are good and bad aspects to this.

I can think of one aspect that would be both good and bad at the same time. Potentially lol

 

[tomplumb83]

If you were sleeping with the female apprentice, this would make things easier as she'd never be late for work. Just a thought...

TB - I can think of more than one!