Rubbish loo flush... EU regulations?!

[dns1]

Hi chaps,

Sorry for the stupid question, but is there an EU regulation relating to the amount of water which can be used to flush a toilet?!

Reason for asking is my folks had a bathroom fitted (by B&Q, never a good idea) about a year ago, but someone messed up fitting the concealed cistern, so it leaked everywhere behind the built in unit. They had someone back recently and a new cistern, correctly fitted this time, however, the flush is very poor.

When my folks complained, they were told that due to EU regulations, they have to fit a smaller cistern and hence the poor flush!

Is this true?! If it is, it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, as it now takes 2 or more flushes to clear the bowl! or are we just being fobbed off by B&Q yet again?

EDIT: Quick addition... The dual flush no longer works and my folks were told that it's now single flush only! Apparently the 2nd button is purely cosmetic!

 

[Ray Stafford]

Yes there is, although its been in force a while now. I'm doing this from memory, so forgive me if I get a date wrong.

Originally, most cisterns were 9 litres.

About 15 years ago that was reduced to 7.5 litres, and then about 10 years ago it became 6 litre (long flush) and 4 litre (short flush). There are now a number of 4/2.5ltr cisterns on the market, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was further legislation coming down the track.

I don't know whether the origin was European, or simply our own water bylaws trying to reduce demand.

In a relatively small percent of cases, it does cause problems, and as you describe, you end up flushing 2 or 3 times, and using 18 litres of water instead of 9 or 7.5.

 

[dns1]

Thanks for that,

It just seems odd that it was fine when it was installed a year ago, but now it's been altered, it's hopeless!

Problem before was the cistern wasn't actually attached to the wall, just balanced on top of the pipe to the pan, so it was leaking...

Now it's been moved back a few inches and secured properly, but not raised at all. Could the increased distance between the cistern and the pan, but with no increase in head be the reason it flushes so slowly now?

 

[Guest123]

The flush valve or syphon controls the flush rate. There are adjustment sliders on it that can raise or lower the flush volume.

Shocking service that. Whoever installed a cistern on the flush pipe without fixings should be shot, that's horrific. Seems they are trying to fob you off now.

If you can post a picture of the cistern inners, then I can tell you how to adjust the syphon. You might have the flush pipe pushed in too far as well, so include a picture of that too.

 

[dns1]

Just been to take another look at this set up and, asides from noticing that some prat has clearly tried to lever the inspection panel off the unit with a screwdriver, the pipe between the cistern and the pan actually flows UP!

No wonder it doesn't work properly! I'm no master plumber, but even I know that water doesn't flow willingly uphill!

It's a bit hard to see exactly what's inside the cistern because there is so little space, but I'll try to post up a picture. For some reason the 2nd installer has removed the Fluidmaster drop valve which was fitted originally a year ago and put something totally different in...

One other thing I've noticed is that the soil connector is one of those accordion things. I'm quite surprised as this is a fairly simple installation with easy access to the stack. Thought those bendy connectors were only supposed to be for DIYers and really awkward angles.

 

[Guest123]

Sounds like a botched installation and they returned with damage limitation in mind not a proper fix. If you don't get satisfaction from them, you might have to count your losses and get a decent installer in. Maybe you should consider getting one of the guys from the forum to pop round and do a thorough check of everything in the bathroom.

 

[leethegasman]

If we where still fitting these bad boys you would have a good flush the days before plastic and saving the planet.

 

[Ric2013]

I know this is now years' old, but for reference, the law allows existing toilets to retain their original flush volumes on the grounds that a toilet designed for, say, a 9l flush, simply will not flush properly with 6l.

Some toilets designed for 6l litre flush work very badly, but, equally, there are also toilet pans that will flush perfectly well with 4 litres.

Given that the latest regs did not come in anywhere near the date of the OP's post, it sounds like DNS1 was being fobbed off severely. People often blame the EU when they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[newcastle phill]

Indeed new regs have just come into force.
The new toilets are infact cistern-less.

Just make sure you use your brown bin for...well..you know...[emoji90]

 

[rpm]

For anybody doing bathrooms or refurbs or indeed replacement flush valves where there is a macerator fitted. Saniflo and I dare say others are working on macerators that will work on 4L cisterns but until that day comes they need a full 6L of water and a good whoosh of water into the pan because contrary to urban myths they do not suck waste matter in. And yes I`m afraid I do bat the ball back to the installer in these case`s.