Roman bath nightmare, cannot fix the leak

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Discuss Roman bath nightmare, cannot fix the leak in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

April Banawa

April Banawa

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14
Hi all!! Deperately in need of some help from someone in the know. I have recently had my whole house refurbished and put a roman/ tiled bath on the first floor. It has been nothing but grief. Everyone is pointing fingers but I need a solution. The area has been tanked twice but it's still leaking. They now think it's because they dont have the correct waste system. Wet room wastes dont come with plugs so what can I buy to rectify this situation? They are now talking about getting a waste and gully fabricated to do the job but surely there must be something we can buy. This isn't the first roman bath ever made!!
 
April Banawa said:
Hi all!! Deperately in need of some help from someone in the know. I have recently had my whole house refurbished and put a roman/ tiled bath on the first floor. It has been nothing but grief. Everyone is pointing fingers but I need a solution. The area has been tanked twice but it's still leaking. They now think it's because they dont have the correct waste system. Wet room wastes dont come with plugs so what can I buy to rectify this situation? They are now talking about getting a waste and gully fabricated to do the job but surely there must be something we can buy. This isn't the first roman bath ever made!!
Click to expand...
Any pictures?
 
April Banawa said:
Hi all!! Deperately in need of some help from someone in the know. I have recently had my whole house refurbished and put a roman/ tiled bath on the first floor. It has been nothing but grief. Everyone is pointing fingers but I need a solution. The area has been tanked twice but it's still leaking. They now think it's because they dont have the correct waste system. Wet room wastes dont come with plugs so what can I buy to rectify this situation? They are now talking about getting a waste and gully fabricated to do the job but surely there must be something we can buy. This isn't the first roman bath ever made!!
Click to expand...
Pictures and drawings is the way fwds on UKPF ..then we can all have a look and help you. I have in fact been in the Roman Bath many years ago in Bath with my now ex Mrs it was fun but we must move on
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
 
Very funny everyone!! Its just a fancy name for a tiled bath!!:rolleyes:

WhatsApp Image 2019-07-22 at 18.27.14.jpeg


WhatsApp Image 2019-07-22 at 18.27.21.jpeg
 
In all seriousness, where is it leaking?

It’s just like doing a wetroom to be honest so really not a problem - please tell me it’s not a ‘builder’ job?

Do you have membrane tanking or paint on?
 
Ben-gee said:
In all seriousness, where is it leaking?

It’s just like doing a wetroom to be honest so really not a problem - please tell me it’s not a ‘builder’ job?

Do you have membrane tanking or paint on?
Click to expand...

Its paint on tanking. Between the plumber and the tile guys, they can't seem to figure it out. Apparently, all of the wastes that are for wet rooms are not designed to have a plug, fair enough but there are loads of people who have these kinds of baths so there must be a waste made for this purpose surely??
 
April Banawa said:
Its paint on tanking. Between the plumber and the tile guys, they can't seem to figure it out. Apparently, all of the wastes that are for wet rooms are not designed to have a plug, fair enough but there are loads of people who have these kinds of baths so there must be a waste made for this purpose surely??
Click to expand...
They kept on thinking it was leaking through the tiles and after a couple to tries of re-applying the tanking, the leak has got worse. It cant be the tiles though because i've filled the bath up with numerous buckets of water with the plug in and it hasnt leaked. it only leaks when it is draining.
 
That waste does look wrong, almost like a basic kitchen sink waste, an unslotted belfast sink waste might be better. It has a larger flange on the surface touching the tiles. Can you get access underneath?
 
I’ve already suggested Belfast waste.

If they can’t figure it out, remove section of ceiling below and it will become obvious.

Might be time to get new plumber and tile guys......
 
Jones82 said:
That waste does look wrong, almost like a basic kitchen sink waste, an unslotted belfast sink waste might be better. It has a larger flange on the surface touching the tiles. Can you get access underneath?
Click to expand...
Yes from the utility room underneath
Ben-gee said:
I’ve already suggested Belfast waste.

If they can’t figure it out, remove section of ceiling below and it will become obvious.

Might be time to get new plumber and tile guys....
Click to expand...
I ended up taking a multi-tool and cutting out the ceiling myself because they just kept on skirting around the problem, guessing when they could've had a proper look instead

WhatsApp Image 2019-07-22 at 18.42.41.jpeg
 
What's the construction of the floor under the bath like, was it re-enforced, is it just a single layer of chipboard?

It could be that the whole tiled floor area is moving under the weight of water (and occupant(s) ) and opening up a leak.
 
snowhead said:
What's the construction of the floor under the bath like, was it re-enforced, is it just a single layer of chipboard?

It could be that the whole tiled floor area is moving under the weight of water (and occupant(s) ) and opening up a leak.
Click to expand...
it has three RSJ's holding it up and it was constructed with block and brick. Weight was definitely factored in.
 
Can you see the bottom of the waste system from your hole if so add a pic
 
Can you cut a bit more of the ceiling out to gain access?
 
That is NOT a suitable waste for that situation. End of.

Who did you pay to set it working?

Regardless, might I suggest you write to them to give them 14 days to resolve the problem to your permanent satisfaction. Take advice but in that letter you can say if it not resolved to your perm satisfaction then you will call in other trades people to remove what has been installed and redo it so it is done properly. At that point you will be taking them to court to recover both costs and an additional sum for inconvenience.

Basically, stop bu66ering about with them. In my opinion, the 'fault' is with the plumber not the tiler. The plumber should have supplied an appropriate waste designed for this situation. If they had done so then the tiles would have less of an issue.

In my opinion, the tiles need to be removed around the waste inside the tub too.
 
YorkshireDave said:
That is NOT a suitable waste for that situation. End of.

Who did you pay to set it working?

Regardless, might I suggest you write to them to give them 14 days to resolve the problem to your permanent satisfaction. Take advice but in that letter you can say if it not resolved to your perm satisfaction then you will call in other trades people to remove what has been installed and redo it so it is done properly. At that point you will be taking them to court to recover both costs and an additional sum for inconvenience.

Basically, stop bu66ering about with them. In my opinion, the 'fault' is with the plumber not the tiler. The plumber should have supplied an appropriate waste designed for this situation. If they had done so then the tiles would have less of an issue.

In my opinion, the tiles need to be removed around the waste inside the tub too.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. I am too nice, so they are taking advantage but rest assured, I told the plumber today that I owe the main contractor £3000. If it isn't fixed, i'm using that money to get it redone and they can hash it out amoungst themselves.
 
Cbw, they need it to plug for a bath - not be free running like a shower.

I agree on sources of leaking, but in addition in this case you need to add the tanking as a leak source. The treatment around the outlet is critical and in my opinion is more reliable with a membrane than with paint on tanking.

Although I assume they have at least used a piece of membrane around the waste outlet, which is then overprinted with tanking solution - please say they did......

This is a fairly specialist area and not a ‘have a go’ job.....
 
I would find a specialist in wetroom/Roman bath/swimming pool type installs and suggest to the plumber they pay for a consultation before you do.
It's important not to throw the book at any tradesman, I know I'll bend over backwards for my customers if they ask but will only do the minimum required if thats what they demand.
The mix of builder tiler and plumber here is a recipe for problems if you start laying down the law.

Unless your contract is with just one of them, then let rip :)
 
Rob Foster said:
Pictures and drawings is the way fwds on UKPF ..then we can all have a look and help you. I have in fact been in the Roman Bath many years ago in Bath with my now ex Mrs it was fun but we must move on
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
Click to expand...
No surprise there then! :p
 
I'd maybe ask this question in the tiling forum too, those guys may have more experience in Roman tubs then we do. I would also ask your tiler what sort of grout was used. I'm no expert on the subject but I would say you'd want an epoxy grout suitable for use in swimming pools, it should also be given adequate time to dry which would be around 3 weeks. If a standard bathroom and shower grout has been used then this won't be ideal as it's actually porous and isn't designed to hold water.
Regarding the waste I really have no clue either. The likes of impey, akw and mcalpine all do wetroom shower wastes but nothing for a bath. I would say it's not generally something used that much in the UK so you might want to start looking at products from overseas.
Its a shame because it really does look nice, unfortunately these things are so easy to get wrong and very hard to correct without starting again. You've got £3k held back and I think you've got good reason to keep it, by the sounds of it your plumber and tiler have had enough chances, so I would seriously consider trying someone else. Do some research and get a specialist firm in.

Good luck
 
It does look good but this type of thing was usually installed on a solid floor (concrete) with a proper drain connected into it (not light duty wastes and plastic). I know that is probably unhelpful but I am sure if a customer asked me to install something like that upstairs in a property with a suspended floor, I would politely refuse.
These things are seen a lot abroad and look fabulous but their buildings are not the same construction as ours in general.
 
Knappers said:
I would find a specialist in wetroom/Roman bath/swimming pool type installs and suggest to the plumber they pay for a consultation before you do.
It's important not to throw the book at any tradesman, I know I'll bend over backwards for my customers if they ask but will only do the minimum required if thats what they demand.
The mix of builder tiler and plumber here is a recipe for problems if you start laying down the law.

Unless your contract is with just one of them, then let rip :)
Click to expand...
Don't worry, I used to run my own building firm, I give people a fair chance but at this point, I will be ripping b@*locks off!!!
 
Back to the leak - without complicating the issues of tanking and so on.

You said the bath holds water and only leaks when it is draining.
To what level have you filled the bath for this test.

Expose the underside of the bath where the trap and drain connections are.
It may be a simple fix for that part.

Secondly tanking - do you have any photos of the bath under construction and any of the tanking installed.

As a side note: what are the dimensions of the bath?
( Volume of water held by bath )
 
I actually believe that a decent wetroom tanking membrane CORRECTLY fitted is good for this application.

it is unlike a swimming pool in terms of
i) chemicals
ii) depth hence pressure
iii) length of time submerged

I have used Impey's membrane for similar with no issues.

We are only talking intermittent submergence with 0.5m head ie 0.05bar

....waits for a poopooing at best....
 
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Ben-gee said:
..waits for a poopooing at best..
Click to expand...

Whatever turns you on Bennie :eek:

Personally, I'd not be happy with a 'shower' ty0e system. IMHO this is a small pool and as such should be constructed as such, including epoxy grout, as already mentioned.

FWIW, I don't feel this is a maliciously poor install. For whatever reason, they just haven't thought if through properly and this is what happens.

Best of luck getting it sorted.
 

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