Possible legal issue coming. Advice required.

[midlands based]

Over xmas i had a call from someone with no heating or hot water. It is somebody that i know but thats irrelevant. Anyway its a rental property and the customer had tried the proper route of calling the agent and the landlord but nobody was available due to it being xmas. So i went out and diagnosed the problem(diverter valve). I managed to sort one between xmas and new year and did the job. Today i have invoiced the agents letting them know what has been done but there attitude seems to be that i am not a registered contractor with them and no works were authorised by them so i can see it getting messy. Am i in the wrong for doing the job ? Where do i stand legally ? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ray Stafford]

You don't have a contract with the landlord or their agent, and you have no legal right to expect them to pay you anything. They may do, either out of goodwill or in order to protect their relationship with their tenant.

You may have a contract with the tenant - it depends on what was said when you agreed to do the work.

Normally, agents have an emergency service for dealing with out of hours emergencies.

 

[MickBrown]

Do not know what the legal issues would be but I would say the tenant is responsible to pay and then they claim it back from the landlord. In an emergency situation if they are unable to contact anybody then it is perfectly reasonable for them to get somebody to do the job and then claim it back from the landlord. I had the same situation when somebody had water coming through the ceiling through the light fitting. They could not get in touch with the agent and called me, they asked for the bill to be sent to the agents but I told them they would be responsible if he agents would not pay, they agreed to this. However the agents paid without a problem.

 

[DaveTidy]

If the tenant asked you to carry out the work then they are liable first off for payment.

At all times the managing agent / Landlord must be given an opportunity to ok the contractor and most importantly any associated costs.

The original agreement between tenant and managing agent / landlord should be followed so that would be your first port of call.

In all the companies I have worked for, contracted for etc if the tenant calls you out, they are liable for all costs unless the Landlord agrees with them or there is a 3rd party insurance policy covering it e.g. BG 3*.

It's reasonable to think they would pay fair costs, but they don't always even when they are not contactable.

Good luck but I'd say the bill lies with your tenant and they should reclaim it from the Landlord, not really your issue.

 

[midlands based]

I can go down the route of billing customer and them passing my invoice on to the agent. Just thought it would be easier to sort direct. I cant see how not having an 'agreement' can be an issue when they were unavailable to agree anything and offer no emergency contact.

 

[Ray Stafford]

I cant see how not having an 'agreement' can be an issue when they were unavailable to agree anything and offer no emergency contact.

But thats a contractual issue between landlord and tenant. Nothing to do with you.

 

[ADM360]

I would go back to you customer, explain the situation and ask them to speak to the agents about the matter.
As said earlier it was the tenant that contacted you and agreed with you to go ahead with the works, so any contract is with the tenant unfortunately, and pursuing, putting pressure on the agent could make things worse!
hope you get it sorted

 

[Reg Man]

Agree with Ray. Your contract is with the tenant, so if you want payment then invoice them. The tenant may have recourse with the landlord, as he has a contract of tenancy, which includes tenants rights for the landlord to ensure hot water is provided to the property. The tenant must give the landlord reasonable time to get the repairs rectified. As for what is reasonable may end up being decided under litigation, but hopefully no one wants it to go so far. Lets hope the Landlord comes to some sensible compromise.

 

[snowhead]

As above it's the Tennant that's liable for your costs.

The weak point is the "sorted one out between Xmas and New Year"
Did the Tennant try the Agent at that time?

The agent will say if they were contacted they would have sent their engineer, but should still re-emburse the Tennant.

 

[Bunker]

As above. Ive had the same a few times but always telling the tennant that they will need to pay me.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Tenant should pay and as the work was necessary it would be pretty tough of the agent/landlord not to reimburse them.

Tenant needs to pay you not the agent.

 

[SimonG]

Will the 7 day selling rules come in?

What you need is a self carboning work sheet, get the tenant to sign it and make sure that it says somewhere that they will pay if landlord refuses.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

If the landlord won't reimburse the tenant for necessary and essential work over Christmas then they're pretty heartless.

What we don't know is has the tenant paid rent on time, kept the property in decent condition etc.

If they have a good tenant/landlord relationship all should be ok.

You could advise the tenant to deduct the cost from their next rental payment and then it's the tenant/agent/landlord battle and you're not involved.

Have you asked the tenant for payment?

 

[Ray Stafford]

You could advise the tenant to deduct the cost from their next rental payment and then it's the tenant/agent/landlord battle and you're not involved.

I would be careful giving such advice. Some leases prohibit "offsetting", and it is for the tenant to manage their relationship with their landlord.

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Agreed Ray but usually on an assured short hold lease unless it's written in then it never used to be a standard clause.

As we've said, the tenant needs to pay for the work.

 

[Reg Man]

Section 11 of landlord and tenancy act 1985. The landlord has to address the issues within a reasonable timescale. One week seems to be a president in law from one case I am aware of. Christmas is no excuse. The landlord/agent should have systems in place for urgent repairs. No hot water, I would imagine falls into this area, as hot water provision is a minimum requirement under tenancy.

 

[Killy Bing]

I hate to say it, but you may have to swallow it and put it down to experiance.

It can be argued youve done the work but the home owner hasn't authorised the work or have a contract with you for doing so.

its like someone tarmacing your drive without consent and then charging you, because your neighbor said they could.

and as your friend is the tennent, are you going to charge them?

 

[Ermintrude]

Section 11 of landlord and tenancy act 1985. The landlord has to address the issues within a reasonable timescale. One week seems to be a president in law from one case I am aware of. Christmas is no excuse. The landlord/agent should have systems in place for urgent repairs. No hot water, I would imagine falls into this area, as hot water provision is a minimum requirement under tenancy.

Well said was about to quote similar.
As there were no means of making residence habitable, hot water for washing and preparing food or for hygiene ; the premises are deemed unfit for habitation. As the landlord is obliged to provide a habitable premises the Tennant can deduct cost from rent to action works if the vendor fails to achieve conditions of contract.

Tennant may need proof of attempts to contact agent.

Also I believe you own parts. With consent of friend remove them .

 

[midlands based]

The issue has been sorted this afternoon and full payment has been made. I actually ended up being offered a further job by them WITH a purchase order. Persistence paid off this time so its a good job im a stubborn :nono: or id of been out of pocket.

 

[Reg Man]

That's great news. Obviously the landlord saw reason and has seen a valuable opportunity in another reliable contractor to help them out.

 

[WHPES]

I always try and get hold of landlords before starting any work.

I got called out to a job which the landlord's [former] plumber had tried repeatedly to sort and I fixed it in about 10 minutes, and after that I got all the future work.

 

[DaveTidy]

I'm glad you got paid so a good debate this time.

I would always get the tenant to sign prior to works so they have no comeback if they haven't complied with their landlord/tenant contract.

You just know you will get stiffed if you take a chance more than once; the simple piece of paper could be worth a couple of hundred quid if you've fitted parts and keeps you in the clear.

As for taking them out, I'm not certain you are allowed to do that without the Landlords permission as once the parts are over the threshold and installed, it's no different to fitting a boiler and they didn't pay, it's their property and you have to go to court if they won't recompense you for it.

I know a plumber who gained entry to a site and ripped his bathroom suite back out after non payment; he was visited by the police that afternoon for possible burgary and advised to refit it or he will also be liable for damage and theft.......he nearly had a cardiac with his temper but still had to return the goods that he never got paid for.

No point in court action as they didn't have any money!!

I wouldn't fit anything without an autograph, glad you got your money though.