Over charging.

[850Rick]

All FE colleges have been given a deadline for ending the practice of 100% college based NVQ training, which covers all training sectors, e.g. plumbing, catering, etc, etc.

The colleges will be moving towards Diploma qualifications, C&G, etc.

The Government have effectively cut funding to FE colleges - they say they have made £xxxxx.000's available for apprenticeships, but as many businesses are struggling to keep the staff on they have at the moment, the Government's pledging of cash is pretty safe, i.e. it won't be taken up.

There needs to be coordination and long-term planning of training, and of course the business environment at national level - most politicians haven't been interested in skills training, the focus having been on University education, which they've now managed to make a mess of.

Most of the dimwits in Westminster think in terms of: blue collar - white collar, i.e working with your head, or your hands, they don't get the idea that both increasingly play a part in today's world where things are constantly changing and becoming more technical.

Vince Cable occasionally says something sensible, but then Nick calls him in to give him a metaphorical slap for talking out of turn.

This country would be best served if the Tories hived off business development and related growth to the LD,s, thus giving Vince Cable a shot at getting things going again. The idea that the Tories are good at business is old hat - maybe in the days of Ted Heath there were people in his cabinet that were self-made men, but that's not the case these days. Silver spoon brigade now! Same goes for the Labour Party.

I got away with not paying for my level 2 but got to pay for my level 3 as funding has already been cut.Diploma is already in force with City and Guilds anyway. AQF is also a new Qual but also a bridge over from say 6129 to 6189 or what ever it is.The funny thing is the college dont no alot about the bridge over yet with it being new lol

 

[hunterseye]

We've not even been offered lev 3 Rick. It's a case of thanks for your money,there's the door oh and sorry for ripping you off over 60 hours on the course coz we couldn't manage to keep hold of not one or two but 5 lecturers. And people wonder why my knowloedge is limited. So you find yourself asking, what next? The only conclusion i came to was roll my sleeves up and try.

 

[TBServices]

Personally speaking, I learnt a lot on my apprenticeship and tbh I wouldn't be half as good as I am if I'd not gained that experience. College taught me nothing about the practicalities of doing the job. I'm not saying you need an NVQ to get on, but walking out of college and setting up on your own does not make you competent in my eyes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[850Rick]

We've not even been offered lev 3 Rick. It's a case of thanks for your money,there's the door oh and sorry for ripping you off over 60 hours on the course coz we couldn't manage to keep hold of not one or two but 5 lecturers. And people wonder why my knowloedge is limited. So you find yourself asking, what next? The only conclusion i came to was roll my sleeves up and try.

You will be able to do the new Qual mate its a bridge over.Level 3 is surposed to be hard more indepth with heating,bit of gas and all the engergy stuff.In level 2 we are just scratching the surface with heating

 

[petercj]

I got away with not paying for my level 2 but got to pay for my level 3 as funding has already been cut.Diploma is already in force with City and Guilds anyway. AQF is also a new Qual but also a bridge over from say 6129 to 6189 or what ever it is.The funny thing is the college dont no alot about the bridge over yet with it being new lol

Diplomas have been around for the past 5 years or so - the colleges were put on notice of the issues around NVQ some years back too, having been given time to adjust.

To be fair to the colleges, they don't really know what to allow for. The Government plans suggested that there would be a demand for one-day-a week courses based on apprenticeships, but then the scale talked about was unrealistic, and as the recession has bitten harder and harder, so there is less chance of creating college courses that have work placements.

The abolition of the Adult Learning Grant was given hardly any coverage by the media. The media colluded with politicians by focusing on EMA, which they justified the scrapping of by saying that kids didn't need paying to stay on at school.

 

[hunterseye]

Personally speaking, I learnt a lot on my apprenticeship and tbh I wouldn't be half as good as I am if I'd not gained that experience. College taught me nothing about the practicalities of doing the job. I'm not saying you need an NVQ to get on, but walking out of college and setting up on your own does not make you competent in my eyes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

totally agree. It does not make you competent. And if i'm honest, the whole adult education system stinks. The questions i ask are bread and butter to you boys, but to me i need to ask. I don't have any other avenue to turn other than to get on with the very small amount i've been taught at college. But you'd be naive to think that a two year tech cert would set you up in the trade. All it does is help you gain a small insight as to the tasks( and only a few at that)a plumber undertakes. So, if i must start small and work my way up, i want to try to do it right, if i don't know something i ask. Since there doesn't seem to be any post course guidance to turn to.

 

[850Rick]

totally agree. It does not make you competent. And if i'm honest, the whole adult education system stinks. The questions i ask are bread and butter to you boys, but to me i need to ask. I don't have any other avenue to turn other than to get on with the very small amount i've been taught at college. But you'd be naive to think that a two year tech cert would set you up in the trade. All it does is help you gain a small insight as to the tasks( and only a few at that)a plumber undertakes. So, if i must start small and work my way up, i want to try to do it right, if i don't know something i ask. Since there doesn't seem to be any post course guidance to turn to.

I think you will be fine mate just takes time

 

[tamz]

Out of interest Tamz how long into the 35 years did you enjoy it for? It must have been a while unless you've been willingly doing a job you don't like for decades.

I had a think about that one and can't quite put a date on it. Probably around the early to mid 2000's. It just kind of snuck up on me gradually.
Probably a lot of it is down to the change in people and attitudes, a lot with how the trade has been allowed to be degraded and devalued, training courses that teach nothing and make you competent and qualified in whatever you can afford to pay for while in reality being totally incompetent , the claim culture that make us fill in endless reams of useless paperwork just in case, the terrible workmanship i see daily etc etc.
Now it just pays the bills until i decide to cash my pension in.

Your are wrong on both accounts,we have had this arguement in college with the tutors many a time.NVQ is just proof of competence,City and Guilds is recognised by employers all over the world,this has always been a grey area in plumbing,like whos quals is better etc.Its a complete load of Shi*e.Every one is doing the same thing at the end of the day.Even if you only have tec cert you can still do Gas and water regs.

City and Guilds are just an awarding body. There is no grey area. The only industry recognised qualification to be employed as a fully qualified plumber (as laid down by the Sector Skills Council and expected by employers) is an NVQ or SVQ . You can get away with an NVQ2 in England but in Scotland you need a minimum of SVQ3.

There is currently no legislation which you are correct,this is gonna change though from the goverments eyes anyone who isnt qualified as a plumber can just walk up to a customers house do what ever work and could contaminate the water supply.They are out to close the loop hole at some point,when i dont no.The tutors at college are gonna keep us updated on this.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that one. The trade bodies have been trying for over a century to have plumbing licensed as it is in other parts of the world (including some so called 3rd world countries). There are many schemes currently in place like the CLE in Scotland but none of them are compulsory and they never will be especially in a domestic situation. The government do not have a vested interest in fixing the shambles our industry is in which they partly created.

Why not, I don't have any NVQ's.

neither do i

You are all ok i can assure you

That is good to know :lol:

 

[hunterseye]

i just cant beleive the education system allows colleges to take your hard earned and start training you then not offer further progression. everyone on my course wanted to be there. we wanted to learn. yet the bread and butter of the college was full time students who didnt give a monkeys and didnt realise what an oppertunity they was throwing away. does my bonce in

 

[R1CKY]

As a fairly young plumber (6 years in the trade) who has recently been through full time college, I agree with a lot that has been said regarding NVQs and even ACS. All they prove is that you can read a book and guess an answer. The amount of incompetent people that walked away with qualifications was unreal!

Fully agree with you, hunterseye, about the full time students. I was 18 when I started out plumbing, but a lot of my class was 16 year olds straight out of school, a lot of them were kicked off the course, what a waste of an oppurtunity. There were guys in your position who had to pay for their course and were fuming with the attitude of the younger ones!

Like others have said, don't undervalue yourself and good luck, we all had to start somewhere and not everyone is lucky enough to have done an apprenticeship.