No power to boiler

[motobroox]

Hi, I looking for some help please. My boiler stopped working a couple of days ago. There's L N E SwL coming into the boiler. When call for heat is given, the SwL comes from 40v to 250v, but the other live stays about 40v. The feed into the clock is ok at 250v, but there no voltage going into the pump at CFH. Is the clock bust?

Just a side note on the boiler, it's not spurred downstairs, so I'm guessing it's getting it's voltage from the clock switch?

TIA

 

[mountainman]

No good guessing with gas or electricity motobroox, may I suggest you get a specialist in to sort it out safely for you.:yes:

 

[Tap dancer]

I had a specialist to do a repair on my boiler. He switched off a nearby switch without asking me what it was for, he just guessed. In fact, it was for my washing machine.

The result - - - he had a nasty full mains voltage electric shock! Not fatal though, it just caused lots of swearing.

 

[mountainman]

A specialist what though, tiler, plasterer, brickie, 6ww wonder (or even some time served that I know) spark?

It certainly wasn't a competent heating engineer!

 

[AWheating]

not a specialist if safe isolation is not known lol.

 

[msec]

Between which conductors are you getting voltage? Did you test L to E, L to N? Bear in mind you will get voltage between live and anything conductive with a return path to earth. You may have lost a neutral for whatever reason. More likely though is the boiler or programmer not switching as it should. What type of heating system do you have?

I would say you probably need an electrician rather than gas engineer but anyone who doesn't test for safe isolation deserves the shock they get.

 

[Tap dancer]

A specialist what though, tiler, plasterer, brickie, 6ww wonder (or even some time served that I know) spark?

It certainly wasn't a competent heating engineer!

Dare I mention that it was a GSR employed by a nationally-known company referred to by 2 initials, the first one the same as a striped insect that stings and makes honey. The second is what you say to a horse to make it walk.

 

[REDSAW]

Dare I mention that it was a GSR employed by a nationally-known company referred to by 2 initials, the first one the same as a striped insect that stings and makes honey. The second is what you say to a horse to make it walk.

that explains it then.

get a proper guy in and it will cost less

 

[mountainman]

Ah!
Bee and Quick, that explains it!

 

[REDSAW]

MUSH? b&m...

 

[motobroox]

Between which conductors are you getting voltage? Did you test L to E, L to N? Bear in mind you will get voltage between live and anything conductive with a return path to earth. You may have lost a neutral for whatever reason. More likely though is the boiler or programmer not switching as it should. What type of heating system do you have?

I would say you probably need an electrician rather than gas engineer but anyone who doesn't test for safe isolation deserves the shock they get.

Thanks for the reply. It's an open vented system and all the readings were taken using earth

 

[msec]

Try testing to neutral, if you get no voltage then you may have lost a neutral for whatever reason. If thats the case then you'll need a decent sparky to fault find. Far more likely though is that the programmer isn't switching as it should and you'll probably need a new one. You'll be better off with a sparky rather than a gas fitter/plumber for this one.

 

[tamz]

90% of sparks i've ever met (even very good ones) know nothing about heating.
This is easy fixed by anyone with half a brain.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

90% of sparks i've ever met (even very good ones) know nothing about heating.

Unfortunately too true to be good. I personally know a lot of them even struggling to wire a combi with inbuilt controls. Rather when it comes to external controls. Have seen the lot including having two L and no N wired into the terminal. The poor lad phoned me to tell me the boiler must be broken.
I only know one spark where I can rely on when it comes to heating.
He even tackles mid position valves out the back of his hand.

@OP: Check the MI what the boiler needs. Most modern boilers have to have a permanent L for the pump overrun/protection.

 

[motobroox]

Try testing to neutral, if you get no voltage then you may have lost a neutral for whatever reason. If thats the case then you'll need a decent sparky to fault find. Far more likely though is that the programmer isn't switching as it should and you'll probably need a new one. You'll be better off with a sparky rather than a gas fitter/plumber for this one.

Thanks for your help on this. The system was fitted by a cowboy when the house was built, a number of things were recified by the NHBC (basics like the gas pipe wasn't insulated, valves upsidedown etc). Whoever done this, left the junctions he created somewhere unknown in the fabric of the house. Had I been able to locate these find out what was happening with the power would have been more straight forward.

A few days ago the pump was working on CFH, it's now stopped as it has no supply. So I thought the clock has packed up and the relays aren't sending the power where it should be. I just wanted to double check my thought process and to ask experienced experts if the would be kind enough to impart some of their on the job knowedge.

I would never change or tamper with anything that I didn't understand, a component changeover is my limit as I'm not qualified to do anything other than this.

 

[msec]

90% of sparks i've ever met (even very good ones) know nothing about heating.
This is easy fixed by anyone with half a brain.​

​

Whilst I tend to agree that a lot of sparkys don't understand heating systems sufficiently, I think saying that 90% know nothing is slightly in the extreme. I've also got to say that the vast majority of installs I've seen where the gas fitter / plumber has carried out the wiring are also of poor workmanship or don't work as they should.

In this instance the OP has an electrical problem, which I also agree should be easily fixable. He should, in my opinion get a good sparky not a gas fitter.

 

[msec]

Unfortunately too true to be good. I personally know a lot of them even struggling to wire a combi with inbuilt controls. Rather when it comes to external controls. Have seen the lot including having two L and no N wired into the terminal. The poor lad phoned me to tell me the boiler must be broken.
I only know one spark where I can rely on when it comes to heating.
He even tackles mid position valves out the back of his hand.​

These are just examples of VERY bad electricians / installers. ANY half way decent sparky can wire a combi and expecting a boiler to work with no neutral is nothing to do with lack of knowledge of heatings, its lack of knowledge of electrical installations, full stop.

 

[msec]

@ op: if you feel confident enough, I'd go get yourself another programmer and replace the existing one. If you can, try and get a similair make/model. I've worked on them before where you can simply swap the programmer front as the wiring is terminated onto a backplate. If you can do this it would make life easier.

 

[motobroox]

Grasslin QE2 is on it's way, it's a 2 minute swap over. Hopefully that will do the job?

Thanks very much indeed for your help msec

 

[msec]

I would have thought that will do the job yes.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Millsy 82]

It does not sound to me as though it is a programmer fault sounds as though it is wired up incorrectly and a valve is shot really you need either a good sparky or a good heating engineer either will probably find it within minutes.

 

[Millsy 82]

Whilst I tend to agree that a lot of sparkys don't understand heating systems sufficiently, I think saying that 90% know nothing is slightly in the extreme. I've also got to say that the vast majority of installs I've seen where the gas fitter / plumber has carried out the wiring are also of poor workmanship or don't work as they should.

In this instance the OP has an electrical problem, which I also agree should be easily fixable. He should, in my opinion get a good sparky not a gas fitter.

On my company its about 99% I only trust 1 sparks for our company to wire a Y or S plan. Ive had to follow 1 around to 3 jobs he had wired up wrong ( Even told him at 1 job where he had gone wrong didnt believe me oh how I chuckled when he did what I said and it worked perfectly) A few of the others I have had numerous phone calls and it usually ends up me wiring it up for them and I very rarely get it wrong now.

The reason I think heating engineers are better for fault finding on Y and S plans is because we work on them day in day out so it is second nature the sparks only get called in on installs so they may only see a couple a month if that.

Obviously there are good sparks out there we have 1 who I thought to myself he doesnt know what he's doing but he surprised me ( although he does look as though he is permanently asleep)