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Discuss Nibe F2015 Air Sourced Heat Pump... Chances of selling second hand? in the Renewable Energy area at

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  1. Dave2360

    Dave2360 Guest

    Hello All

    Forgive me if this the wrong forum for this question, but i could really do with some direction from the experts!

    I have recently moved into a new Millgate Homes house that came complete with a Nibe F2015 ASHP for all heating requirements (ex Hot Water for taps). The house also included an Energy Monitor and as you can possibly guess we seemed to be using a lot of electricity and accumulating a hefty power bill.. on the last check it was £490 for a seven week period, or £10 a day average.

    We had no warning of the high costs associated to the ASHP and when escalated to the MD of Millgate Homes he accepted that they are not the best option for an area with Gas Supply due to the high running costs. In fact, he stated that they have installed 20 over the past 3 years to meet the local councils directives around renewables and in that period 18 have been decommissioned, I guess leaving only me and another soon to be shocked Millgate customer with them running..

    When asked why i was not informed of the highcosts, he replied, 'your a business man' what would you have done... got to admire his transparency.

    Anyhow, enough moaning. Millgate have offered to cover the cost of removing the ASHP, but on the agreement that they keep all the associated kit - F2015 + Buffer Tank + SMO 05 etc... In my mind not a good deal given the RRP of this kit and the fact its only 5-6 months old. Alternatively, they suggest that I pay for the system to be removed and then sell second hand to cover costs..

    My plumber seems to think I will be able to sell second hand, but i have not seen and second hand/refurbished systems on ebay etc, so is anyone likely to buy??

    Can anyone provide any guidance on reselling such a system? I have spoken to a number of Nibe premier fitters listed on and whilst they have been really useful in terms of how best to run the system, none have been interested in buying.

    Hopefully you can offer guidance and i have not offended anyone with a sales question!

    Many Thanks

  2. eaton

    eaton Guest

    It will be undersized running on a big immersion back up, hence large price, builders speck too small a unit to run on its own, plus the unit is pants, check out moneysavingexpert forum
  3. Dave2360

    Dave2360 Guest

    Thank you for your thoughts -it is an 12kw unit - so perhaps to small? And agree the emersion is adding to the cost.

    If sized correctly would this system work out cheaper than gas alternative?

    And finally... Any thoughts on being able to sell second hand?
  4. eaton

    eaton Guest

    Against natural gas no, I'm not keen to be honest, I don't know of anyone who has one that's happy, and I know around 500 people with them
  5. MattWeth

    MattWeth Guest

    Unfortunately gas remains cheaper to run than an ashp (even a correctly sized one). Even if you were allowed rhi (which you wouldn't be in mains gas area), gas would still be cheaper.

    To be honest your council should be sued for allowing / forcing a patently ill advised installation.

    Regarding the no cost removal offer from your builder - I'd snatch his hand off.
  6. poorman

    poorman New Member

    We've got a 8.5kw nibe ASHPin a small 3 bedroom house, running 7rads and a kick space heater(another rad) after 5 months of banging our heads against the wall the initial problems have been solved (almost) we have not had the immersers switched on apart from as short period to see what they would do to the running costs(eek). At the moment its averaging £4.05 a day over the last 11 months although the last 19 days has averaged £3.23 a day, we are at home most of the time. That is the electricity usage for the whole house. I put the two immersers on for a week, the electricity usage went up to £9.00 a day, so much for my carbon footprint!
    Hot water prodution is pretty poor, half a bath and its starting to go cold. But the house is warmer, much warmer overall than the storage heaters we had before. So we have installed an electric shower.
    The cost though will work out about £400 more than last year and its been really mild compared to the last two years.
    I read on a Danish web site that the only way to keep the running costs of these down was to monitor them constantly, thats what I've been doing. Properly insulated, our house is almost there and ASHP seems to be working okay.
  7. eaton

    eaton Guest

    Ashp insatlled correctly can run up to 20% cheaper than ng, but cost of install is double so not really worth it
  8. CMcM

    CMcM Member

    In citys where ng is avalible u would have to be "eco minded" to isntall one but anywhere that was oil its a no brainer, pays its self on in no time.
    ASHP are the most expensive to run but cheaper to install than ground loops or bore holes. The hot water, dont run ur tap at full speed allow the hp to work while ur draining all the hot water or maybe hit the boost button and take it from 50oc to 60 30mins before ur bath.

    What size is your buffer tank and hot water tank?

    Check ur run times and compressor start stops, menu 5. also see what ur additional heat hours are...

    Using these HPs is about making wee changes here and there.

    Prob better selling the parts from the unit for fault units. You can get goverment grants for buying these interest free so dont know why someone would take money out there account earning interest (ok low amount) when you can pay it back interest free.
    How much were you hopeing to get?
  9. poorman

    poorman New Member

    An update on our air source system, we have just had a period of temps down to -2 and the heat pump whilst keeping the house reasonably warm is costing in the region of £15 per day!!. We are on hydro electrics economy 10, off peak is 10.23p and high peak is 18.17p with the daily charge of 14.90p. We are in a local authority house and were told that these HPs would reduce our electric prices by up to 50%, in fact it is the opposite our electric costs have jumped by 150% although some of that is down to the rip off cost of electricity. The installers are rather aloof blaming the high costs on those operating the systems, the local authority has admitted that they know nothing about ASHP and but are themselves quick to blame the tenants, they've had numerous complaints.
    The installation of these machines was I suspect a mixture of local authorities trying to meet the pressing government targets for emissions by 2015 and all those that saw that as a open door to making a quick buck, our installation was tendered to a plumbing company who's MD told me that he didn't know anything about heat pumps, it was then sub contracted to another company purporting to be a renewable energy company who were really just 'product managing' the job who then sub contracted it to another plumbing company, there must have been a huge profit built into the original tender.
    At the moment the house is asleep except for the dim light of my laptop, the only things using electricity are the fridge, the hub and the phone and the heat pump, my meter shows the cost fluctuating between 67p and 33p an hour and at present temps the pump will run almost continuous, we gat 10 cheap rate, 4.30 -7,30, 1.30 -4.30 and 8.30- 00.30. Our previous system was storage heaters, with cheap rate between 11.30pm to 7.30am the storage heaters did though only heat some of the house but we had 225ltrs of hot water and an electric bill that was in the region of £750 - £850 per year.
    My advice to anyone thinking about ASHP is only to consider them as a last choice, as NIBE's UK page states these units are designed for a NORDIC CLIMATE, ours is a temperate climate with high humidity and huge temperature swings.
    The UK has gone down a strange route, two of my sons wanted to be a plumber and electrician but there are no apprenticeships anymore (or like hens teeth) and you cannot go to college anymore to do a full time course unless sponsored by a company which makes it really a closed shop. I shall update the results of my querying the system along with running costs (gulp) over the next few months.
  10. eaton

    eaton Guest

    That's a really poor statement, unfortunately you have a unit that for me isn't really an ashp, its undersized no doubt and not running efficiently, I have quote a few running and they are saving people a hell of a lot of money compared to storage heaters or oil.
  11. poorman

    poorman New Member

    One of the problems is that there seems to be a huge gap between some of the people/companies advising and selling these machines, we were told as I have previously said that the system would save us around 50% on our heating bills and we can only rely on their so called expertise, even last night I looked at website stating that these ASHP would save up to 60% on electricity bills.

    The companies importing and selling these machines may be quite honest in their claims but its the installers, some who don't really understand the technology,that are more than likely, quite capable plumbers that let people down and unfortunately everyone gets tarred with the same brush. I stand by my statement in saying that if you are thinking of renewing your heating system stay away from ASHPs, with electricity prices going through the roof to satisfy shareholders dividends these system which are really electric hot water heating systems will only get dearer to run, if the price of PV panels came down drastically so that everyone could afford them then perhaps these systems would really be cheap to run, if the control board goes in the Nibe how much will it cost to replace? £1000, technology is fine but making things simple to install, easy and cheap to run should be the way forward.
  12. eaton

    eaton Guest

    I've got a customer who I installed ashp for, he had storage heaters, he's had one full winter and is saving over £500 a year
  13. erpkid

    erpkid Plumber GSR

    People buy all sorts of stuff on eBay. Anyone in an oil area would be interested.
  14. eaton

    eaton Guest

    I'd strip it for parts, its worthless whole as units shockingly bad
  15. MattWeth

    MattWeth Guest

    I wouldn't be so sure about that. It'd have to be someone with a well insulated property that happened to be perfectly sized to suit a rubbish second hand HP...
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