New boiler location and ultimate setup recommendation please

[Pizzaboy]

Just bolt on a pump or power shower(s), easier all round.

I tried this originally I installed a pump for I think £300. It was so noisy and it lasted 1 year before it broke. It now sits unplugged. Redundant
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If I go back to your first post, you believe that your incomming flow rate is around 15 litres per minute. Any Combi fitted should be sized to that flow rate. A 42kw Combi requires a much higher flow rate than that.

You have clearly set out what your requirements are - you need a decent heating engineer to design a system to deliver them and give you some guarantees.

A Combi solution (without an accumulator) winot address the fundamental issue that you have - low flow.


At the moment, with the route you are following, the likely outcome is that the showers won’t perform significantly better than they do now.

I would also talk to your neighbours as to how they have addressed and resolved this issue.

Apologies, but I have seen it so many times - systems ripped out, an enormous Combi on the kitchen wall - and the shower still trickles.

As the previous poster succinctly said - pumping the shower from a vented hot water tank will at least show some imorovement.

That’s fine. Appreciate being told the facts. Thinking now that I agree that flow rate and pressure is going to determine setup. Not just wacking I’m a big system without decent flow rate. I Just don’t understand why 2 separate plumbers came and recommended a combi. I guess finding a plumber who’s thorough and very competent is the next step. Any recommendations for one who works in Northampton please let me know
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The other dynamic to consider is ...you install pump assistance to achieve desired rate from your combi then as you are legitimately taking your neighbours water they go and get
similar pumps installed and you are all back to square one. I watched a whole cul de sac in
Hightown go this way we did our fair share. Stored water is the best way it can build up overnight for the morning onslaught and recover during the day. Then in the summer you will be laughing when your neighbours cant even suck it out of the main
centralheatking

That explains a lot. As a general member of society it didn’t enter my mind that the mains coming into my house ever varies and or wouldn’t be sufficient to run any size powershowers. Without thinking it through I just expected a limitless flow rate from the outside main pipe. I always thought that people stored water in cylinders primarily because the boiler was unable to produce enough hot water on demand. And not that the incoming cold supply may not be able to keep up.

 

[Brambles]

We cover a number of properties in Rushden - if that is close to you.

 

[gmartine]

I tried this originally I installed a pump for I think £300. It was so noisy and it lasted 1 year before it broke. It now sits unplugged. Redundant

Looking at that install I'm not surprised...no insulation (for pipes or pump), pipes insufficiently clipped and poorly installed, unsuitable pump location ( right next to cupboard door). Was it even screwed down or did it just bounce around on it 's rubber feet while knocking the outlet pipes on that dividing wall? Anyhow there are better ways and much much longer lasting and quieter pumps say by StuartTurner or Grundfos so perhaps you should revisit the idea.

 

[centralheatking]

I tried this originally I installed a pump for I think £300. It was so noisy and it lasted 1 year before it broke. It now sits unplugged. Redundant
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That’s fine. Appreciate being told the facts. Thinking now that I agree that flow rate and pressure is going to determine setup. Not just wacking I’m a big system without decent flow rate. I Just don’t understand why 2 separate plumbers came and recommended a combi. I guess finding a plumber who’s thorough and very competent is the next step. Any recommendations for one who works in Northampton please let me know
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That explains a lot. As a general member of society it didn’t enter my mind that the mains coming into my house ever varies and or wouldn’t be sufficient to run any size powershowers. Without thinking it through I just expected a limitless flow rate from the outside main pipe. I always thought that people stored water in cylinders primarily because the boiler was unable to produce enough hot water on demand. And not that the incoming cold supply may not be able to keep up.

There is a wealth of experience on PF, we do not always agree on everything, I think you are getting the picture now. Combi Boilers are smashing for the correct circumstances and an absolute inadequate bind in unappropriate usage. centralheatking

 

[Pizzaboy]

We cover a number of properties in Rushden - if that is close to you.

I live approximately 18 miles away/30 min drive from Rushden. However I would have a preference to someone local to Northampton if possible.
Would anyone recommend using sites like mybuilder to find someone? The purpose isn’t to find someone to undercut someone, cost is secondary to achieving a good result . Just someone who is has a good local reputation and will be accountable
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Looking at that install I'm not surprised...no insulation (for pipes or pump), pipes insufficiently clipped and poorly installed, unsuitable pump location ( right next to cupboard door). Was it even screwed down or did it just bounce around on it 's rubber feet while knocking the outlet pipes on that dividing wall? Anyhow there are better ways and much much longer lasting and quieter pumps say by StuartTurner or Grundfos so perhaps you should revisit the idea.

It wasn’t clipped down. Want pressurised hot and cold now for mixer taps . So vented boiler system is defo not an option. And would like to avoid Standalone pumps

 

[gmartine]

I'm out. Good luck with trying to find someone who doesn't want to install a combi, you could try our forum sponsor....

The Shower Power Booster | Get the Perfect Shower | Inline Pump

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[Pizzaboy]

To anyone still following this
Managed to get Anglian water round to check my outside feed. Which is surprisingly good.

Outside Mains
3.9 bar
50ltrs/min He was using a Weir cup (Googled the name) which seems optimistically high

Back tap approx 15 m ish away from mains
3.5 bar
25 ltrs per min
So it’s lost half of the flow

I then run a jug test myself running each cold tap on full and putting a jug under for 6 seconds. Multiply x10 for ltrs/min

1200ml /12ltrs kitchen tap

1500ml /15 ltrs Bath

2800ml / 28ltrs sink tap upstairs

For some reason the kitchen tap is terrible. And the bath cold feed appears to coming from the tank upstairs. Not the outside supply.

My questions are:

1. how much loss is normally expected between mains and house?
2. If I install a 22mm cold pipe to feed new boiler. what start point do I ask him to attach it at in order to loose the least flow.
3. Any rules of thumb of how much loss in flow will there generally be going from ground level to floor 1 of a house in the 22mm pipe.
4. Based on the fact I have an existing gravity heating system working. Could I install the new water pipe. Check the pressure and flow. And then buy according to what I actually get?
5. Would digging a new 32mm supply to the mains be overkill. Looking at prices. It seems approx 1k ish. Which is what any accumulators might cost and would mean It wouldn’t take any space up in the house. And should mean I’m always gonna be in a good supply of water.

 

[centralheatking]

To anyone still following this
Managed to get Anglian water round to check my outside feed. Which is surprisingly good.

Outside Mains
3.9 bar
50ltrs/min He was using a Weir cup (Googled the name) which seems optimistically high

Back tap approx 15 m ish away from mains
3.5 bar
25 ltrs per min
So it’s lost half of the flow

I then run a jug test myself running each cold tap on full and putting a jug under for 6 seconds. Multiply x10 for ltrs/min

1200ml /12ltrs kitchen tap

1500ml /15 ltrs Bath

2800ml / 28ltrs sink tap upstairs

For some reason the kitchen tap is terrible. And the bath cold feed appears to coming from the tank upstairs. Not the outside supply.

My questions are:

1. how much loss is normally expected between mains and house?
2. If I install a 22mm cold pipe to feed new boiler. what start point do I ask him to attach it at in order to loose the least flow.
3. Any rules of thumb of how much loss in flow will there generally be going from ground level to floor 1 of a house in the 22mm pipe.
4. Based on the fact I have an existing gravity heating system working. Could I install the new water pipe. Check the pressure and flow. And then buy according to what I actually get?
5. Would digging a new 32mm supply to the mains be overkill. Looking at prices. It seems approx 1k ish. Which is what any accumulators might cost and would mean It wouldn’t take any space up in the house. And should mean I’m always gonna be in a good supply of water.

PF never forgets anybody...Dan does That..
Is your area rural or built up suburban ?
1. these figures .great in both departments ..your figures are a flow most london people would kill for. It was also good to get your utility out as well normally they are quite reticent.
2. You cannot loose out with a new supply to your gaff from the meter/utility stop...but is it really 1km ?...perhaps its 1metre.
3. so your analysis 4 & 5 is valid
let us know...you are tenacious ...quite right too. centralheatking

 

[garygvl]

PF never forgets anybody...Dan does That..
Is your area rural or built up suburban ?
1. these figures .great in both departments ..your figures are a flow most london people would kill for. It was also good to get your utility out as well normally they are quite reticent.
2. You cannot loose out with a new supply to your gaff from the meter/utility stop...but is it really 1km ?...perhaps its 1metre.
3. so your analysis 4 & 5 is valid
let us know...you are tenacious ...quite right too. centralheatking

£1000 not 1kilometre