MCS Accreditation

[unguided1]

Well I still do not have my MCS accreditation, I am still signing off my MCS installations and I am inspecting other installers installations.
I still say that the MCS is a complete joke and completely irrelevent, the main problem that I am finding is that installers need to be educated in the correct sizing and correct installations of these products, The fact that many of the inspections that I do involve MCS accredited engineers and companies proves that the MCS QMS system is irrelevant as I am constantly looking into problems that are caused by incorrect instalation.
Its all about money and I can assure everyone I will never be MCS accredited as long as the focus is on QMS and not on installation.
A prime example is the fact that if your Gas Safe you only have to look at the gas appliance not the whole system and MCS is the same when there is a problem the first thing that is blamed is the appliance, when I turn up to sort out a problem with an appliance that is not working properly I can guarantee that the majority of the time there is nothing wrong with the appliance, but there is always something wrong with the system and usually they are basic fundamental mistakes that even a first year loveslave properly beaten would never make.
So as more of these regulations keep coming in the more I am being dubbed a cowboy as I refuse to pay to become a member of these organisations. I am also debating as to whether I will be renewing my Gas Safe this year as I am sick and tired of not getting value for money

 

[Toddyplumb]

The only problem I have with MCS is COST. Yet more money for the plumbing heating engineer to find for more hangers on .
QMS no problem as long as it is tailored to our needs

 

[SimonG]

Hi Simon, I am a heating engineer by trade but I also have 17th edition and part P and act as the quality supervisor for a firm who carry MCS for PV by subcontract, but my main business is Heat Pumps and Solar Thermal this is the area I carry MCS in.

With regard to the admin side its just a case of ensuring we follow the procedures we set up from the initial enquiry through to commissioning. Utilising the correct forms and documents etc. it has helped me but sounds like it aint for everyone. It really aint that big a deal you just put pen to paper and make bullet points on each stage of your business / sale process.

- Enquiry comes in
- Site Assessment completed
- Calculations produced
- Quotation
- Order confirmation
etc etc etc
I think I have about thirty procedures, each an A4 page part filled. all you do is elaborate on each stage e.g Enquiry - Enquiry comes in and is recorded on the enquiry form, this is then placed in the new enquiry tray.
Then we had our internal review and asked the question which advertising had shown results, answers was we didn't know cos we were not recording the enquiry source so now we ask where did here about us. This will hopefully save us money as we will only advertise where we are getting results.
On your fourth I am unsure as to your thoughts behind waiting for the RHI to be confirmed in 2012 I have at least 20 installations waiting until for the 1st July to take advantage of the RHI Premium payment. Which I calculate to be a similar to the annual payment on the RHI anyway, but to be honest when my customers see the savings they make on other fuels the RHI is just a bonus.
Finally I would be interested to see what the cost implication people have towards getting MCS mine cost me £550 the £15 per installation, that seems pretty cheap to me!

Cheers Electrofy, appreciate you taking the time to respond and a very interesting response, particularly around the cost side. Theres been many a post on here indicating costings way in excess of what you have paid.
Definitely a lot more food for thought.

 

[MickW]

Just a quick update...

The document I previously posted, calling for QMS exemption for small business, has been adopted without amendment as the briefing document for the campaign by a number of leading players in the industry including manufacturers such as Vaillant, Baxi and Worcester.

It is early days yet, but I am encouraged by the support I am getting to present a united industry front and we are currently arranging meetings with DECC and other officials.

In case you missed it, here is the document again: Trade Only: Over-regulation is the Biggest Barrier to Renewable take-up

 

[CES]

[QUOTE

without the QMS and the details required for business to operate to a high level of quality control the renewable industry will fall flat on its face.[/QUOTE]

I think you may find that when the funding for FIT and the Greendeal or whatever form it will take runs out then MCS may fall flat on its face.
On the funding issue How did you manage to do it for just £550? NAPIT who are providing my Certification for £380 (1 technology), REAL assurance at £204, GEMSERV at £110 all plus VAT. That makes it £832 for my one technology?

 

[MickW]

Without the support of the independent installer, the UK will not reach it's renewable targets and the QMS is a barrier to independent installers.

Large firms have the infrastructure to cope with the QMS, but it is disproportionate for one man bands and other smaller firms. Many thousands of these businesses have been trading successfully for years and are highly qualified & experienced engineers and to suggest that they would contribute to the renewable industry falling flat on it's face is ridiculous and insulting. If it came to a choice between a qualified heating engineer, trained in solar, but without a complaints procedure or meeting log OR an MCS accredited double glazing firm, I know which I and most other members of the public would choose.

I don't intend to get dragged into an argument with you, electrofy - you are just not credible to me! Interesting that you have only just joined - HMM!

 

[eaton]

Glad to hear your earning from it. My total cost was around £1600 that was training at local bpec place and my qms plus napit for heat pump/ solar. Got my assessment on the 20 July so hoping my outlay is as productive

 

[MickW]

Glad to hear your earning from it. My total cost was around £1600 that was training at local bpec place and my qms plus napit for heat pump/ solar. Got my assessment on the 20 July so hoping my outlay is as productive

Good luck!

 

[CES]

I think you may find that when the funding for FIT and the Greendeal or whatever form it will take runs out then MCS may fall flat on its face.
On the funding issue How did you manage to do it for just £550? NAPIT who are providing my Certification for £380 (1 technology), REAL assurance at £204, GEMSERV at £110 all plus VAT. That makes it £832 for my one technology?

Once the funding runs out then yes the scheme may well close but this was not the point I was making.

The REAL Fee is not included in my figures as I was a member of an OFT prior to joining MCS so was just a simple transfer over and my figures were excluding VAT as i am VAT registered so i claimed this back.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for making the funding issue clear.

 

[unguided1]

I find the QMS completely irrelevent when I am inspecting MCS accredited installers and unregisterd installers and DIYers and finding the DIYers and unregistered installers doing a better job than the MCS guys and I will still refuse to become MCS as for my mind it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth and is definately noy value for money for the customer the government or the Installer and I defy anyone to call me a cowboy because I am refusing to be MCS accredited, by the way signed anotherone off today.