Talk about, talking the talk but not understanding walk.
If you say so but come on no need to be rude.
I know now that I made the right move to get out of teaching!
So let me get this straight, your now saying that a Level 3 plumbing course is for designers?
Nope, I think it was clear but in case it wasnt L3 contains design at a basic level in addition to commissioning, fault finding etc. In future vocational L3 will have to be comparative with academic L3s
Not been a plumbing apprentice yourself then Kay ?
Why do you say this?
Somebody wanting to learn further skills, develop a deeper understanding, learn new skills will definitely benefit from doing the L3
Not half as much as the college nicking the fees off them.
Nicking fees? Learners want to learn, know the facts, understand the advantages and limitations then there is no nicking of fees. To make that kind of statement about all colleges you will need cast iron proof every college nicks fees, then I would recommend you do something about it
It contains centre based practical so as with the L2 it does give the learner the prospect of applying knowledge in simulated activities
If you say that is akin to real plumbing, I will believe you.
Thought I was quite clear that I didnt say it was the same as real plumbing, I think the title gives that away 'simulated'
This is then a good base line for learners to apply these skills on-site and upgrade to the NVQ Diploma. How they going to do that then they will have forgotten 75%+ of what they were taught by the time they get out there. Its a very good system that benefits learners and employers who wish to take somebody on who has learnt the base knowledge and wishes to build upon it. A very good system when understood, often misrepresented which is a shame.
In future vocational education will play a larger part in post 16 full time education, so centre based learning is here to stay, some people are against it but it wont go away, best to make it work and fit into the apprenticeship and support industry, any amount of personal resentment of these courses will not change government initiatives
If you say so but that not what I am hearing with the continued drive by government to increase proper apprenticeship
Your correct Government want to increase the number of apprenticeships, that doesnt affect the drive to increase standards of vocational full time learning, with employers expected to pay more towards apprenticeships in future any Government drive will struggle without funding.In addition, Im not quite sure I follow the reasoning behind this course not being suitable at L3 but thinking L2 is. L2 contains many practical skills where being employed in the industry would be very benficial to help develop those skills, were L3 has more knowledge of systems, regulations and generally more theory than practical. Given that many designers enter at L3 standard (Nat Cert in BSE) and go onto degrees and to design these systems including reference to water regs etc. without any practical experience it suggests L3 is more understandable for a non employed learner than L2.
We have to understand that these are not apprenticeship courses, not claimed to be, not designed to be and serve a different purpose. They are very valuable if used for their intentions.
Oh but they are aren't they. They try to teach plumbing subjects to the same level as the apprenticeship 6189, so if they got a job in plumbing are they going to sit through it all again, No.
They are not the same units so they are not taught to the same level, at level 3 the units are not aligned with CPS so YES they will have to take those units again, therefore securing the skills for fully competent installers/plumbers.
Therefore no apprenticeship & for those that understand learning a Craft, it simple can't be done without work.
In an ideal world all trainees would be employed and we all agree that would benefit learning no end, but the simple fact is we are not in that situation. Many many changes to vocational education, apprenticeships WILL change and so will full time courses
They are not going away so we need to work with them so they benefit the industry