Leak in customer house.

[OffshoreGas]

Personally I'd pay the £350 and move on with your life. It's just business, its all tax deductible. Use it as a learning experience to spot the to**ers.

A single customer badmouthing a business can cost the business £1000's.

 

[Ryooo]

Personally I'd pay the £350 and move on with your life. It's just business, its all tax deductible. Use it as a learning experience to spot the to**ers.

A single customer badmouthing a business can cost the business £1000's.

But why? I've asked for faulty fitting and or pictures and have heard a peep from him since. Over £200 damages to vinyl and flooring and £30 for ceiling damages. Come on, we all know leaks flood the ceiling, then wall and then flooring. The guy was at it. My guess was he wouldn't wait for me so thought he would have a go himself or most likely his first attempt at fitting kitchen sink didn't go to plan. It's kitchen flooring area he is/was claiming damages for. If I pay £350 I'm admitting liability.

 

[Harvest Fields]

But why? I've asked for faulty fitting and or pictures and have heard a peep from him since. Over £200 damages to vinyl and flooring and £30 for ceiling damages. Come on, we all know leaks flood the ceiling, then wall and then flooring. The guy was at it. My guess was he wouldn't wait for me so thought he would have a go himself or most likely his first attempt at fitting kitchen sink didn't go to plan. It's kitchen flooring area he is/was claiming damages for. If I pay £350 I'm admitting liability.

Agree mate. Never agree to anything like that until you have proper proof.

 

[OffshoreGas]

But why? I've asked for faulty fitting and or pictures and have heard a peep from him since. Over £200 damages to vinyl and flooring and £30 for ceiling damages. Come on, we all know leaks flood the ceiling, then wall and then flooring. The guy was at it. My guess was he wouldn't wait for me so thought he would have a go himself or most likely his first attempt at fitting kitchen sink didn't go to plan. It's kitchen flooring area he is/was claiming damages for. If I pay £350 I'm admitting liability.

3 reasons I say pay up and move on:

1) public opinion and consumer law is 95% in favour of the customer.

2) if his bad mouthing you costs you one decent bathroom you could easily lose 10 times what he wants from you. The public love a good moan and with social media he can tell 1000’s of local people. It doesn’t matter you’ve done nothing wrong

3) best case you end up in court, you’re business ended up in the press, again the plumbers always guilty. You loose nights of sleep, days of messing about with court dates letters etc and incur costs from solicitors etc.

Anyone would want to stick it to him but the best decision for your mental health and business is to pay what he asks. You could try offering him half?

 

[Best]

3 reasons I say pay up and move on:

1) public opinion and consumer law is 95% in favour of the customer.

2) if his bad mouthing you costs you one decent bathroom you could easily lose 10 times what he wants from you. The public love a good moan and with social media he can tell 1000’s of local people. It doesn’t matter you’ve done nothing wrong

3) best case you end up in court, you’re business ended up in the press, again the plumbers always guilty. You loose nights of sleep, days of messing about with court dates letters etc and incur costs from solicitors etc.

Anyone would want to stick it to him but the best decision for your mental health and business is to pay what he asks. You could try offering him half?

Difficult to give advice when we only have part of the story.
The customer could be a rogue, or he could be a reasonably decent guy who genuinely had a leak.
Unfortunately the OP didn’t go back to verify what the truth was.
The law is also fair for a plumber as long as evidence is in the plumbers favour. The customer would have to prove it was the plumbers faulty workmanship and responsibility.
Small Claims Court should be okay for trades people if they have followed all proper procedures with dealing with customer, including overall good quality work and having all evidence.
Problem for the OP here is he wasn’t able to deal with the alleged issue.
If the OP does pay the money, the customer could still bad mouth him and it would look to everyone that the plumber had been liable.
As I say, it is difficult to know what to do. If customer did have a genuine problem caused by the OP and asked a sum of money to a reasonable amount and without showing aggressive intent, then am sure sometimes best to keep them happy, pay and walk away.

I remember being involved with a friends customer who was a con woman. She tried to claim for damage to a vinyl floor actually caused by herself. That sort of person is best to never be handed any money, even just on a principle.
She thinks of insurance, including trades people’s, as something to furnish her lifestyle.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Difficult to give advice when we only have part of the story.
The customer could be a rogue, or he could be a reasonably decent guy who genuinely had a leak.
Unfortunately the OP didn’t go back to verify what the truth was.
The law is also fair for a plumber as long as evidence is in the plumbers favour. The customer would have to prove it was the plumbers faulty workmanship and responsibility.
Small Claims Court should be okay for trades people if they have followed all proper procedures with dealing with customer, including overall good quality work and having all evidence.
Problem for the OP here is he wasn’t able to deal with the alleged issue.
If the OP does pay the money, the customer could still bad mouth him and it would look to everyone that the plumber had been liable.
As I say, it is difficult to know what to do. If customer did have a genuine problem caused by the OP and asked a sum of money to a reasonable amount and without showing aggressive intent, then am sure sometimes best to keep them happy, pay and walk away.

I remember being involved with a friends customer who was a con woman. She tried to claim for damage to a vinyl floor actually caused by herself. That sort of person is best to never be handed any money, even just on a principle.
She thinks of insurance, including trades people’s, as something to furnish her lifestyle.

In consumer law a product or service that fails in the first 6 months is generally considered the vendors fault until proven otherwise. However the vendor is afforded reasonable opportunity to make good the issue.

If I found a leak left by a trades person I’d expect that to be treated as an emergency and resolved in hours not days unless it was the most minor of seeps.

I don’t think it would be hard to convince a judge it was reasonable to effect a repair himself.

You’d need to demonstrate why the job was worth £350. Damaged property, lost wiring time etc.

I agree it sounds like a shakedown, by not jumping in the van and resolving there and then you’ll never know.

 

[Millsy 82]

A few years ago a company I worked for was involved in a court case for a ceiling that came down and carpet ruined etc. What it was the customer had run out of oil as the watchman had been set to the bund height not the inner tank so was showing still 1/3 of a tank when it was actually empty so pipes froze on an extremely cold night burst and basically wrecked this room.

His claim wasnt excessive and because of the conditions (about a foot of snow) we couldn't get to him for a couple of days so he repaired it himself then point blank refused to have the company back to do the repairs. The company refused to pay the money he had asked for and was taken to court it was a bit stressful as I was the last one there (wasnt me that did the install they installed the wrong fire valve 65c instead of 90c and I was the one that spotted the watchman wasnt set up right) I was the one asked all the questions and what they should say etc etc.

They were in court 5 minutes and the judge threw it out. His reasons were the company offered to get out in a reasonable time considering the issues with weather, the customer refused to allow the company access to assess the damage and to repair the damage.

So I dont think the law is 95% in favour of the customer.

Also if the customer is going to bad mouth you they will do it anyway but by giving in they will tell people your a sucker too.

The OP has done the right thing in my eyes he has asked for evidence that it was his fault and heard nothing back, he did try to gain access albeit a couple of days but that may of been agreed by the customer, he couldn't gain access because the customer forgot to leave a key, you cannot help being ill and if the house was empty why didnt the owner leave the water off.

 

[OffshoreGas]

A few years ago a company I worked for was involved in a court case for a ceiling that came down and carpet ruined etc. What it was the customer had run out of oil as the watchman had been set to the bund height not the inner tank so was showing still 1/3 of a tank when it was actually empty so pipes froze on an extremely cold night burst and basically wrecked this room.

His claim wasnt excessive and because of the conditions (about a foot of snow) we couldn't get to him for a couple of days so he repaired it himself then point blank refused to have the company back to do the repairs. The company refused to pay the money he had asked for and was taken to court it was a bit stressful as I was the last one there (wasnt me that did the install they installed the wrong fire valve 65c instead of 90c and I was the one that spotted the watchman wasnt set up right) I was the one asked all the questions and what they should say etc etc.

They were in court 5 minutes and the judge threw it out. His reasons were the company offered to get out in a reasonable time considering the issues with weather, the customer refused to allow the company access to assess the damage and to repair the damage.

So I dont think the law is 95% in favour of the customer.

Also if the customer is going to bad mouth you they will do it anyway but by giving in they will tell people your a sucker too.

The OP has done the right thing in my eyes he has asked for evidence that it was his fault and heard nothing back, he did try to gain access albeit a couple of days but that may of been agreed by the customer, he couldn't gain access because the customer forgot to leave a key, you cannot help being ill and if the house was empty why didnt the owner leave the water off.

I’d say the fundamental difference is your former employer made every effort to attend the property yet was stopped by extreme weather.

In this case the OP chose not to attend for whatever reason.

 

[Thommo]

Hi what's the best advice in dealing with a leak in a customers house?

1. Stripped out bathroom suite, installed 1st fix shower pipes in stud wall.
2. Turned water on, cheeked all joints.
3. Show customer completed works. Happy with job and paid me
4. Get a phone call 3 days later saying there is a leak. I get him to discuss over the phone. He idtenifies it as the shower pipes, precisely the speed fit cap I've capped the end off with. Job done. Call me back later to say its not its the soldered elbow at the wall.
5. I arrange to go there a couple days later, call him on the day before no answer. Texts me in the middle night saying he has forgot to leave me a key. Can I come the following day?
6. The following day I get shingles confirmed and decided to take a few day off. He is now not happy.
7. After taking two days off, I make contact. He has now fixed my leak, cracked on with the job because he could not wait and sent me an estimated damage cost of £350.
8. Try to resolve over messages, he lift the water on while property was empty, no one went to house till 2 days after plumbing work was done etc
Now it's getting pretty heated.

To summarise, this is my first unhappy customer. I went self employed in May. I have insurance etc. He wanted the job done cheap as chips. He was plumbing in the kitchen sink to a 1st year level. One of his DIY moments could have caused this.

What is the correct procedure you experienced guys go through when this sort of things happened?

Cheers Ryan

I can't lie, the second customers begin telling me they're doing their own 'DIY' plumbing that sends alarm bells to me straight away.

Ask him for a breakdown of damage costs, how he's come to that conclusion and if you're actually liable for the requested charge.

By the sounds of it you are liable for the damages caused so I'd sign off the £350 and take it as a lesson learned, if you seek to challenge the damage costs and he takes the legal route it'll end up costing you substantially more than £350 which isn't healthy so early on in your self employed run.

 

[Millsy 82]

I’d say the fundamental difference is your former employer made every effort to attend the property yet was stopped by extreme weather.

In this case the OP chose not to attend for whatever reason.

Read the thread again he went out but the customer forgot to leave a key so he did attend. He then fell ill.

 

[OffshoreGas]

Read the thread again he went out but the customer forgot to leave a key so he did attend. He then fell ill.

The original post says he tired to go out 2 days later. If I was contacted saying my work was leaking I’d be there if at all possibly within a couple of hours. The OP being ill is unfortunate but not really the customers problem, it’s a foreseeable event a business should have a contingency plan for. If in either instance I or someone working for me couldn’t attend pretty sharpish I’d be calling in a favour from a different firm I respect even if it meant paying for it. It’s not worth risking your reputation/liability insurance etc etc.

The customers trying to pull a fast one no doubt but that’s just being in business. I’d offer him £200 as a goodwill gesture first possibly but it’s just not with the time/effort/risk fighting it. It’s business not personal.

 

[Gasmk1]

it seems to have gone quiet from the original poster so can we assume he's sorted it.

 

[Millsy 82]

The original post says he tired to go out 2 days later. If I was contacted saying my work was leaking I’d be there if at all possibly within a couple of hours. The OP being ill is unfortunate but not really the customers problem, it’s a foreseeable event a business should have a contingency plan for. If in either instance I or someone working for me couldn’t attend pretty sharpish I’d be calling in a favour from a different firm I respect even if it meant paying for it. It’s not worth risking your reputation/liability insurance etc etc.

The customers trying to pull a fast one no doubt but that’s just being in business. I’d offer him £200 as a goodwill gesture first possibly but it’s just not with the time/effort/risk fighting it. It’s business not personal.

View attachment 40064

I have said in one of my earlier posts that if it were me I would of gone out immediately to repair the leak

But

We dont know what the customer said!!!!!

As it's an empty house they may of said no rush I have turned the water off to stop the leak. I've had leaks I didnt spot and people have isolated the iso valve before hand and then happy days no rush I go out when its convenient to them not I'm coming now.

 

[centralheatking]

But why? I've asked for faulty fitting and or pictures and have heard a peep from him since. Over £200 damages to vinyl and flooring and £30 for ceiling damages. Come on, we all know leaks flood the ceiling, then wall and then flooring. The guy was at it. My guess was he wouldn't wait for me so thought he would have a go himself or most likely his first attempt at fitting kitchen sink didn't go to plan. It's kitchen flooring area he is/was claiming damages for. If I pay £350 I'm admitting liability.

Park it walk away and DO NOT PAY. centralheatking

 

[firemant]

Personally I'd pay the £350 and move on with your life. It's just business, its all tax deductible. Use it as a learning experience to spot the to**ers.

A single customer badmouthing a business can cost the business £1000's.

What has tax deductability got to do with anything? It is like saying don't bother billing someone as it attracts tax.

I would never pay a penny to a grasping idiot, unless there was a genuine fault.

It appears that he has no evidence, and these days it is SO easy to take a photograph or video. I do not beleive one would move forward without doing just that.

 

[OffshoreGas]

What has tax deductability got to do with anything? It is like saying don't bother billing someone as it attracts tax.

I would never pay a penny to a grasping idiot, unless there was a genuine fault.

It appears that he has no evidence, and these days it is SO easy to take a photograph or video. I do not beleive one would move forward without doing just that.

Because in real terms that £350 is closer to £200 when you take into account tax.

How much time are you willing to waste for £200 - 250?

Personally I’d offer them a lower amount as a goodwills gesture, if they refuse that pay them, move on and do something more productive. It’s a life lesson.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’m surprised anyone earns any money if you are all offering compensation for every little niggle that pops up

 

[OffshoreGas]

I’m surprised anyone earns any money if you are all offering compensation for every little niggle that pops up

Wouldn’t you always aim to leave every customer feeling they’ve had good service?

Returning quickly to fix a niggle or doing a little bit extra often pays back massively in my experience.

If 1 in 1000 jobs try’s to scam you how much time do you dedicate to it?

 

[Harvest Fields]

Wouldn’t you always aim to leave every customer feeling they’ve had good service?

Returning quickly to fix a niggle or doing a little bit extra often pays back massively in my experience.

If 1 in 1000 jobs try’s to scam you how much time do you dedicate to it?

As much time as the OP already has. He has done what he needs to do. Job done.

 

[Millsy 82]

I’m surprised anyone earns any money if you are all offering compensation for every little niggle that pops up

Especially if your going to offer more than what the job was worth.

 

[Sharp Point]

My penneth worth. In the OP initial post( number 4) he says the customer rang him to say it’s the elbow that’s leaking and they both arranged for Ryoo to go a couple of days later. So the customer is aware that there is a leak but left the water on... the onus is purely on the customer!

Ryoo, I’d say f@ck him. You’ll never make everyone happy...
Some people are just pure tossers

 

[gmartine]

My insurance policy...

 

[OffshoreGas]

My penneth worth. In the OP initial post( number 4) he says the customer rang him to say it’s the elbow that’s leaking and they both arranged for Ryoo to go a couple of days later. So the customer is aware that there is a leak but left the water on... the onus is purely on the customer!

Ryoo, I’d say f@ck him. You’ll never make everyone happy...
Some people are just pure tossers

Kind of depends on each parties definition of "agreed", if the OP said I'll be there in 20 mins and customer said it was OK for a few days is very different to a distressed customer being told the OP will be there in 2 days take it or leave it.

 

[Sharp Point]

Kind of depends on each parties definition of "agreed", if the OP said I'll be there in 20 mins and customer said it was OK for a few days is very different to a distressed customer being told the OP will be there in 2 days take it or leave it.

He left the water on.... nuff sed

 

[OffshoreGas]

He left the water on.. nuff sed

Again you're assuming the customer was competent to decide water should be isolated. You're confusing common sense with the law which rarely agree.

 

[Sharp Point]

Again you're assuming the customer was competent to decide water should be isolated. You're confusing common sense with the law which rarely agree.

If the customer is bright enough to repair the leak, he’s bright enough to isolate the water. He would’ve had to isolate the water to repair it.

 

[Millsy 82]

Kind of depends on each parties definition of "agreed", if the OP said I'll be there in 20 mins and customer said it was OK for a few days is very different to a distressed customer being told the OP will be there in 2 days take it or leave it.

If the customer was not happy then they should of got someone else to repair the leak quicker. Or turn the water off

 

[OffshoreGas]

If the customer was not happy then they should of got someone else to repair the leak quicker. Or turn the water off

Again not what the law says.

 

[Sharp Point]

Again not what the law says.

So you’re a lawyer as well now? Clever man really aren’t you? I’m amazed you’d lower yourself mingling with us mere lowly plumbers being a superior instrument technician and representative of commercial law

 

[Harvest Fields]

Thread closed. I think that this has now been sorted and debated enough.