Discuss is C&G qualification worth the money in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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johny5017

I'm thinking of doing the plumbing course at the BTSC.It's gonna be 11 grand ish. My only concern is spending all that money and struggling to find work. I hear there's loads of work, but BTSC would say that.It would be good to hear it from the horses mouth. any responses or advice would be appreciated. cheers
 
Stepping into the market now as newly qualified would only help your local established plumbers, do lots of research into who and whats going on in your area.
11 grand is a LOT of money to invest in training that may or may not pay off.
if you want to become a plumber, you will need a different reason to "plumbers earn a lot." Good plumbers are hard to find, and time will show we need more of them, however to get into the trade, try to find a way that dosnt cost you so much.
maybe work free for a local firm a day a week, check you like the job, start simple.
you will not become rich from becoming a plumber!! if you like stress and non stop phone calls and fixing your employees work, and have 10 employees all on your jobs then maybe.

good luck.
shaun.
 
I was speaking to the top man in the plumbing department the other day at College. He told me to quickly get my NVQ sorted out because there are going to be big changes coming in 2010 in regards to new plumbers entering the industry.

He said that one organisation (forgot the name) is sick and tired of too many people think they're plumbers and doing one of these courses, he said the trades getting messed up. So they are going to go against the governments advice and completely change the system to make it more strict. I think they only want people who have served a recognised apprenticeship.

So if I was you, I would leave it, as all the qualifications you gain may become worthless next year.
 
It all depends on how you take to it.
Most firms today want you producing good standard work from day one. They usually aren't concerned all that much about qualification, although it helps, they are more concerned about things such as "can you do the job," all qualifications tell them, is that you can answer questions and do set piece work.
I would advise trying to get into a small firm first, one where you might not get a shed load of money and learn, learn, learn. Then go on to the bigger companies, get a track record, but also make sure you get a JIB grade card as the big boys probably won't look at you without one.
And saying that, if you get a grade card make sure you can do the work the grade is for, they can sack you if you can't.

Other than that, if you fancy a certain branch of the Plumbing industry such as sheet lead work or cold water services, or petro chem, or industrial plumbing, then go for the firms that specialise in the branch.

I always preferred working for building companies who employed Plumbers although I probably worked for specialist Plumbing firms more than building. The reason being is, is that the specialists are usually sub contractors to the builders, and the customer pays the builder before the specialist sub contractor gets paid, and you as the sub contractors operative sometimes get far lower pay than working for a builder.

Working directly for the building company cuts the sub contractor out and so there is usually better pay.

Regarding the work itself, well new installations are possibly easier than repair work from a practical point of view. On new work you usually get a set of plans to work too, which is then just a matter of following them. Although you are obliged under a duty of care to point out any faults with the plans and refer them to the appropriate person. In the past it was the clerk of works. Who would then give you the okay to do any changes required but only up to a certain amount, if the changes required where bigger than he could authorise, it was then referred to the architect, who would send out a variation order and amend the plans or drawings.
The plumbing companies did not mind this at all, for they usually got paid a lot extra for changing things.

Repair work was not like this at all, it was all up to you, no plans to tell you what to do, just you or your boss. And it was nearly a new challenge everyday trying to figure out what and how the systems where installed and what to do about the problem on it.

New work on houses was usually bonus related and could be like working in Fords on the production line. You'd do one house then the other 300 near enough the same way. The boss wanted you to make bonus as it meant you where working hard. The problem is if you where slow, you might get the sack. So there was always the temptation to cut corners, to get more speed.

Industrial work could be big and heavy, but usually you might get bonus or you might not. You might get overtime or you might not.
You might have to work shifts to fit in with production patterns, the same on commercial work.

In short you can't really say what its like working in the Plumbing industry so easily. Its certainly not boring and its full of variety.




:)
 
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Hi, As Bernie has said, the plumbing related industry is broad, to say the least. Also a lot of the "training for sale" people just want bums on seats. Some do not even have a pre sign up test. I think this is important as the maths and physics involved can be difficult if you have only got a few months to crack it.
Most peoples assume plumbing is bath rooms, toilets and perhaps the odd outside tap. I have been fortunate, on completing an apprenticeship and college in the 60's i was able to select the type of work i fancied to practice that which the college covered, but not domestic plumbing and heating of my apprenticeship days. Working on hospitals, office blocks, housing estates,etc with all the differing system types and materials.
But one thing i have learned is to be successful now specialise. You have only got to read these forums to see what trouble people get them selves into.
This is my logic for only doing lead roofing and flashings. When plumbing & heating i had to wait until the water,electric and gas were connected before i could get final payment, in a lot of cases the punter had done the money on other things, i had to wait, post dated cheques and all that. Now with roofing the punter has only spent 35% of the build budjet to get this far, cant pay quick enough, and it dont go wrong. No phone calls at 10 Oclock at night and i have not had a divorce since starting this venture.
On a serious note, have a look whats out there before parting with 11 grand. They dont take C&G at Tesco's. Things like Zinc roof training, Eco architects love it its a emerging market, with little competition or HETAS training fitting wood burning stoves, serious money and plenty of work. And many others. Follow the trends my friend. Good Luck
 
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If you decide to go ahead with a C&G course, I would shop around first. Training centres would be much cheaper. But check them out first, make sure you know what you will get for your money.
 
ÂŁ11,000 is an awful lot of money. I would certainly shop around, look at what you get for your money.

How long is the course etc.
 
I'm sorry but that's bloody scandalous. Everything you learn on a 6129 course (and I mean everything) can be found in a ÂŁ20 book.
[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plumbing-R-D-Treloar-3rd-Installations/dp/1405139625/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247238091&sr=8-1"]Plumbing R.D. Treloar 3rd edition: Heating and Gas Installations: Amazon.co.uk: Roy Treloar: Books[/ame]

Buy it, read it front and back then join an evening plumbing course in a local college. You'll get the 6129 done in a year if you're keen and you do the background reading instead of waiting for it to be drip fed.
The NVQ evidence folder requires a work placement but that can be done in a few months.
The bulk of it you can fill out yourself but you need a workplace recorder (i.e qualified plumber) to sign them off.

Requiring onsite assessment

Safety

Assessor checks you can put up a ladder and step ladder safely. Checks you have all the required PPE.

Installations
I chose to be assessed on replacing a soil stack. This needs to have a bossed connection to an appliance.

2x bathroom suites.
Replace all the pipework coming into the room and fit bathroom suite.

Preparation
There are three things you need to have signed off- Drilling holes to clip pipework, drilling a hole through masonry, chasing masonry and/or lifting floorboards and chasing joists.
I had drilling for clips and lifting floorboards observed.

Fill in yourself
Maintenance
Changing washers in taps, changing/rewashering ballvalves, siphons, packing gland on stop tap etc. Basic maintenance stuff.

Decommissioning Photos of kitchen sink/bathroom stripped out.
A photo of you capping off the copper pipework and a photo of you capping the wastes. Also a photo of decommissioning a soil stack.
These can also be done by on site assessment while you do your decomissioning for the installations.

Preperation

One of these can be signed off yourself so I chose drilling a hole through a wall. Basically took a photo of me whilst drilling 3/4" hole for an outdoor tap.



As you can see the NVQ requires very little skill to pass and as such I don't think it's worth jack ****. The measure of a plumber is his experience and skill on the tools and the knowledge in his head and I think the only way to learn that is by plumbing.
Holding an NVQ doesn't/won't make you a plumber. Putting in bathrooms and kitchens only use a tiny fraction of the skills of a proper plumber.

Honestly I don't agree with these short courses, I think they lie about the amount of work out there and are flooding the market with people holding basic skills in plumbing who can't find work.
I believe apprenticeships are the only way to train properly and ensure that the numbers of plumbers are sustainable.

That said I really hate to see people ripped off so I felt I needed to explain exactly what you will need to do to get your NVQ.
Best of luck.
 
Must agree with Mushybees. I paid ÂŁ3000 to get an Aset level 1, then the City & Guilds 6129. Short course route ( 6 hours most Saturdays for one year ).
I have the qualification but consider myself a decent diy'er with no great hope of becoming a full time plumber. At 44 I have no chance of getting a job as a trainee or working along side an experienced plumber.
I have started down a different road now, having done a professional tiling course and a plastering course, so hopefully the plumbing will be of some use if I can get into bathroom installs.
The moral of the story is.... Qualifications don't make good trades people. You don't need to have qual's to work as a plumber, but need to know what you are doing, and how to get out of trouble.
 
Is it possible to take the exams somwhere without having completed a formal course
syllabus
 
It's possible as part of the NVQ.
You can sit the same exams as you'd sit on the 6129 but you'll have to provide evidence of working with steel pipework, lead work on roofs, guttering, soil stacks etc.
Basically you have to prove you've covered what they teach on the 6129 on site.
 
Practical activities you have to achieve on the course include :-

Health & safety
Copper tube
Plastic pipework
Air testing
Low carbon steel
Sheet lead weathering
Airing cupboard installation
Bathroom installation
Decommissioning
Routine maintenance
Environmental awareness
Temporary continuity bonding

And they are just the headings. Each one has a number of tasks which have to be signed off and counter signed by an assessor.
 
I agree with Mushybees and others too. The hardest part is finding a qualified plumber to work with to gain experience. 11 grand is an awful lot of money to get a piece of paper that is unlikely to open any doors. The NVQ assessments do not even begin to reflect the realities of working in peoples homes. Before you commence any course you should be 100 % ceratin you have the practical skills necessary, for example chasing walls, drilling walls, lifting flooring etc. Buy books such as the one mentioned by Treloar, go onthe Uk copper board site and request thier free information. Read the technical stuff and make sure you can understand and assimilate the information. I would consider all these things before spending 11 grand.
In my area there is no shortage of plumbers or heating engineers, it is a myth!
Best of luck
 
city and guilds level 2 is only the first rung on your ladder to becoming a plumber.as for paying large amounts of cash you pay your money and take your chance .work well! some 2 years ago there was alot of work ,there is not at the moment.the training people say there are 30000 jobs for plumbers out there ask them to prove it before you part with your cash.i did a 6 month course in plumbing in 1967 but it was not enougth so i went to night classes at croyden tec best thing i ever did,it took 3 years but came out with advanced craft city and guilds.since then i have taken every opertunity to gain more qualifications.many plumbing employers are asking for 4 years post training experience before they will even consider you for an interview. if you can get a job with one of the bigger forward looking plumbing companies who understand the need to train plumbers over a larger time span than these training companies you will learn at a more measured pace .i was lucky i got a job with a company called drake and skull brillient firm who took an intrest in continuing there plumbers training.so hang on in there as when this downturn ends and it will you will be in a position to take advantage of the opertunities
 
THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF PLUMBERS do not get taken in by the course providers just ask if any of the plumbers are snowed under with work and cant keep up and also ask how many 6129 graduates are now making a living wage
plasterers and sparkies are short
 
11 Grand wow!! I was once gonna try one of these so called plumber in eight weeks courses but was fortunate to find an evening class at a local college. I cant tell you how relieved i am knowing what i know now about these money grabbing b------- youve only got to read some of the horror stories on this and other forums You should try and opt for one of these part time courses. another thing you may not know is if it is your first level 2 you may qualify for funding as i did and i work full time.
Also try the JTL book for easy on the eye learning as some of the other books do get you bogged down a bit (blower and trelor)
So best of luck and keep your 11 grand in your sky rocket mate!!
 
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