Guttering and gas work

[850Rick]

Do any of you do guttering work.Ive heard some plumbers try and stay clear of it the same as blocked toilets lol.The other thing is do any of you just do the plumbing and not do gas.

 

[Ermintrude]

I'm the Complete opposite, just do heating, ufh and boilers, taps wastes and bogs all get given to apprentices. If you do too much your van looks like a second hand shop. Toilet bits tiles, silicone..... Arrrrr I hate tiles. But others love a change and lap up tiling and bathrooms.

However I'm currently tiling a kitchen floor.

Toddler smashed tiles with cast iron pan mrs let him play with. Doh!!!

 

[850Rick]

I'm the Complete opposite, just do heating, ufh and boilers, taps wastes and bogs all get given to apprentices. If you do too much your van looks like a second hand shop. Toilet bits tiles, silicone..... Arrrrr I hate tiles. But others love a change and lap up tiling and bathrooms.

However I'm currently tiling a kitchen floor.

Toddler smashed tiles with cast iron pan mrs let him play with. Doh!!!

A tiler as well aye lol.Did you screed it as well.Gas I think is something im not gonna bother with.Its expensive to do and everyone is at it.Think im just gonna do the general plumbing stuff lol,bathrooms, rads,guttering leadwork,valves water tanks and so on.But I was told by a few people that plumbers don't generaly bother with guttering I thought it was part of a plumbers job?and lead work I did this at college and apparently roofers now do this instead lol

 

[Best]

^^^ that's so true, - you could be doing heating pipework & then suddenly have to go to a boiler or a bit of flooring needed etc, & your van will need too much stuff!
I don't do Gas, but could do most other things if I want or if I am stupid enough to do! Once you service boilers you will end up on breakdowns.

Guttering was always done by plumbers in the old times, I believe as I guess it is pipework of sorts or actually lead lined guttering.

 

[850Rick]

I can do tiling as well lol.Just wont do gas work.Its licence for this and licence for that its a lot of money and you might not get the work

 

[Best]

I can do tiling as well lol.Just wont do gas work.Its licence for this and licence for that its a lot of money and you might not get the work

About £3000 for the basics I am told & you need the cost of gas gear, but a few boiler installs & then you are in profit in theory, but it's hard to know as very competitive. Just seems like you are not a plumber if you don't do everything including gas, sadly. Not nice when someone says to you " I'll get Mr Smith because he IS an engineer." :smile:

 

[850Rick]

I think there is a lot of plumbers out there with out gas,does that not make them plumbers if they don't have gas?I think everyone specialises in different areas

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

When I started back in the 80's we did it all; heating & plumbing. That included lead work and flashing, general plumbing, and drains. Now it seems as though it's all broken up into 'Specialist' factors. In some ways it's not a bad idea especially as there's a lot of equipment needed if you're going to do it all, and as Ermintrude says - your van darts to look mile a bring and buy sale.
If a guttering job comes my way though, I'll do it. The same goes for leadwork. I've seen soooo many shoddy jobs that have been completed by so called 'Specialist' and my customers are happy with me when they find out that I'm even cheaper than the original guys.
I've still got all my lead bossing tools from the 80's in the garage

 

[Best]

I think there is a lot of plumbers out there with out gas,does that not make them plumbers if they don't have gas?I think everyone specialises in different areas

Yes, in a lot of people's eyes if they are not Gas qualified they are a mere 'plumber'
but if you have the badge, then you are an 'engineer' & sometimes even worth more pay.
I worked on bits & pieces of gas work with an engineer until it became necessary to be qualified.
Yet nowadays I notice some of the qualified guys are not even from a plumbing background, so it seems silly not to go with gas.

 

[Koogatubac]

Ive got my natural gas, thought that was boring so got trained with LPG which is different so that keeps me on my toes.

I like guttering, alot of plumbers dont. Depends when u get the job, you could mention you dont mind doing the guttering, however majority of builders/roofers do this now as its been passed to them.

Leadwork now has their own trade title which is known as a specialist trade since alot of the training methods have died out. I enjoyed lead aswell, i was in the regional competition when i was a apprentice, nationals got beat by ALOT of roofers, they do it day in day out you see

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

I'm a Plumbing & Heating Engineer, but I haven't got ACS (Yet). I do have my OFTEC though and I'll work on any heating or plumbing system that I'm allowed to by law (Just for the Gas Safe boys ).
If you only work with the water supply and wage side of things then you're a Plumber, or Plumbing Engineer (If you have the quals to back it up). If you've got the rest then you can call yourself what you like I suppose, as long as it doesn't offend anyone that is.

 

[850Rick]

Yes, in a lot of people's eyes if they are not Gas qualified they are a mere 'plumber'
but if you have the badge, then you are an 'engineer' & sometimes even worth more pay.
I worked on bits & pieces of gas work with an engineer until it became necessary to be qualified.
Yet nowadays I notice some of the qualified guys are not even from a plumbing background, so it seems silly not to go with gas.

I thought you had to have some sort of plumbing back ground to do gas?its like a different trade really gas to plumbing

 

[850Rick]

I'm a Plumbing & Heating Engineer, but I haven't got ACS (Yet). I do have my OFTEC though and I'll work on any heating or plumbing system that I'm allowed to by law (Just for the Gas Safe boys ).
If you only work with the water supply and wage side of things then you're a Plumber, or Plumbing Engineer (If you have the quals to back it up). If you've got the rest then you can call yourself what you like I suppose, as long as it doesn't offend anyone that is.

Im just a plumbing engineer then lol

 

[850Rick]

Ive got my natural gas, thought that was boring so got trained with LPG which is different so that keeps me on my toes.

I like guttering, alot of plumbers dont. Depends when u get the job, you could mention you dont mind doing the guttering, however majority of builders/roofers do this now as its been passed to them.

Leadwork now has their own trade title which is known as a specialist trade since alot of the training methods have died out. I enjoyed lead aswell, i was in the regional competition when i was a apprentice, nationals got beat by ALOT of roofers, they do it day in day out you see

It took me forever to get the hang of doing lead lol.Is it still classed as part of a plumbers job though

 

[kirkgas]

I thought you had to have some sort of plumbing back ground to do gas?its like a different trade really gas to plumbing

If you do a foundation course you don't need any trade background of any sort, it's 6 months full time spilt between class and on site,

 

[Best]

I thought you had to have some sort of plumbing back ground to do gas?its like a different trade really gas to plumbing

A gas training place will want your money!
I know a few people who were not in any way linked to plumbing & they are now gas qualified. They probably couldnt bend a pipe but they got there somehow.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Just off to the pub but before I go ........
I have been 'Training' for the ACS with about 15 other guys (At different times) and I've come across 5 that actually work in the industry at the moment. One of the guys is currently a taxi driver and has no plumbing knowledge at all. He said he might do a plumbing course after he's got his ACS !

 

[Koogatubac]

It took me forever to get the hang of doing lead lol.Is it still classed as part of a plumbers job though

Even though plumber means 'worker of lead'

No.1 i know does lead work, however roofers ive asked and they say that a different specialist company does lead work, and thats ALL they do, paid a fortune since its such a art! Bossed corners, lead welds etc you can make anything out of lead and it'll last a loonnggg time

 

[850Rick]

Just off to the pub but before I go ........
I have been 'Training' for the ACS with about 15 other guys (At different times) and I've come across 5 that actually work in the industry at the moment. One of the guys is currently a taxi driver and has no plumbing knowledge at all. He said he might do a plumbing course after he's got his ACS !

A taxi driver doing acs lol im glad he lives down there by you lol

 

[850Rick]

Even though plumber means 'worker of lead'

No.1 i know does lead work, however roofers ive asked and they say that a different specialist company does lead work, and thats ALL they do, paid a fortune since its such a art! Bossed corners, lead welds etc you can make anything out of lead and it'll last a loonnggg time

I know its defo an art we had to make like a few things in college and it was a pain.at first I thought I wasn't gonna get it but I hung in there.have any of you ever been called out to repair or change the brackets on the drain pipe because its snapped off or broken?

 

[northstar]

rick are you doing your L3 plumbing ?

 

[Best]

I have had to tell a few people what was wrong with their gas boilers because their gas engineers hadn't a clue! - and I don't work on gas!
(I should add - I don't touch the boilers & let them get a gas safe engineer to sort it!)
Often the pipework these guys do, gives away their lack of plumbing knowledge, although some just bring in others to help with installs.

 

[850Rick]

rick are you doing your L3 plumbing ?

hi mate its been a while lol.No I started to do it and the college started messing things about on the course I got as far as lip tests looking for gas leaks lol and sorting them out.They wanted to add things to the course and remove things from the course which annoyed me.I still did my 2yrs at college doing my level 2 and not some 6 or 7 week course where you come out knowing nothing

 

[850Rick]

I have had to tell a few people what was wrong with their gas boilers because their gas engineers hadn't a clue! - and I don't work on gas!
(I should add - I don't touch the boilers & let them get a gas safe engineer to sort it!)
Often the pipework these guys do, gives away their lack of plumbing knowledge, although some just bring in others to help with installs.

That's kind of worrying lol

 

[northstar]

hi mate its been a while lol.No I started to do it and the college started messing things about on the course I got as far as lip tests looking for gas leaks lol and sorting them out.They wanted to add things to the course and remove things from the course which annoyed me.I still did my 2yrs at college doing my level 2 and not some 6 or 7 week course where you come out knowing nothing

what did they remove ?

 

[Best]

That's kind of worrying lol

It is worrying
...Hence why I say if it would pay you to do gas, then why not as you might be better experienced than some gas qualified? That's what my thinking is & frankly some of the gas work is no harder than basic plumbing.

 

[850Rick]

what did they remove ?

One wanted to shorten the course.Another wanted add another term to it.I carnt remember what they wanted to remove now it was something about you having to go on the job as well but at first this wasn't part of the deal.I think it was to make more money out of you to be honest.They was also saying C&G wanted to change things as well but wasn't sure and when.And having doing 2 yrs of worrying id had enough and decided gas wasn't for me well not for now.

 

[Ermintrude]

Boilers and ch require a lot more than an ACS qualification.

Gas qual is all about safety

Pluming is all about it actually working

Lead work is really difficult first few times but you get better. Think of it as butter when your working it. And get right tools . Local HA will only allow sub contractor to use a plumber to do guttering or lead. I am mearly a gas fitter and not a time served plumber. Yet the yellow badge makes you a plumber in eyes of the world. I can do most plumbing jobs apart from ones in my own home!

 

[850Rick]

Boilers and ch require a lot more than an ACS qualification.

Gas qual is all about safety

Pluming is all about it actually working

Lead work is really difficult first few times but you get better. Think of it as butter when your working it. And get right tools . Local HA will only allow sub contractor to use a plumber to do guttering or lead. I am mearly a gas fitter and not a time served plumber. Yet the yellow badge makes you a plumber in eyes of the world. I can do most plumbing jobs apart from ones in my own home!

How can a man with the yellow badge make you a plumber in the eyes of the world lol.You mention your not a time served plumber what work do you touch and what would you call time served in your opinion

 

[Ermintrude]

A time served plumber in my mind is 4 years of collage and graft plus 2 years gas being under some ones wing.

I'm disappointed with what a lot of collages churn out as time served plumbers nowadays. No experience or application. Know theory - can repeat it but don't understand.

If your gas safe a lot of punters assume you are a plumber. Also some people assume that a plumber can do gas coal and oil too.

I generally touch other peoples messes and or problem installs. I do some installs to a lot of servicing and repair but nothing that remotely looks smells or is like a bathroom or kitchen.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

How can a man with the yellow badge make you a plumber in the eyes of the world lol.You mention your not a time served plumber what work do you touch and what would you call time served in your opinion

To be honest - Justgot back from the pub - Time served used to mean Indentured to another plumber but in these modern times I think that at least 7 years might equate to being 'Time Served' at least you'd have some knowledge of what you're doing and not have to reference things in an ebook or whatever.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I will do anything I can get my hands on if I think I can do it done loads of guttering don't mind it I laugh when builders do it tho as its usually a fudge job

 

[850Rick]

A time served plumber in my mind is 4 years of collage and graft plus 2 years gas being under some ones wing.

I'm disappointed with what a lot of collages churn out as time served plumbers nowadays. No experience or application. Know theory - can repeat it but don't understand.

If your gas safe a lot of punters assume you are a plumber. Also some people assume that a plumber can do gas coal and oil too.

I generally touch other peoples messes and or problem installs. I do some installs to a lot of servicing and repair but nothing that remotely looks smells or is like a bathroom or kitchen.

I agree with what you say about people coming up to you because your gas safe and assume you do plumbing lol.In my opinion its two different jobs or trades.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

I agree with what you say about people coming up to you because your gas safe and assume you do plumbing lol.In my opinion its two different jobs or trades.

No it's not - what's wrong with you guys? Or is it just that I'm older and things have changed? Yes you can train to be a heating engineer, and specialise in service and breakdown but you should still have a knowledge of plumbing - that's what it's all about isn't it? How the water makes its' journey. From mains to drain or around a heating circuit, you still need to know how it all fits together.
A Gas Safe engineer should have the knowledge even if they choose not to do the work.

 

[solutions]

I will do anything I can get my hands on if I think I can do it done loads of guttering don't mind it I laugh when builders do it tho as its usually a fudge job

My neighbours are tennants and had their guttering redone this summer. I dont know if the fitter was a plumber or not but the gutter is realy only a semi directed waterfall and its not been in a year yet.
The water is now getting through to the inside of the property as its a solid brick victorian wall with lots of cracked and unpointed lime mortar.

 

[solutions]

No it's not - what's wrong with you guys? Or is it just that I'm older and things have changed? Yes you can train to be a heating engineer, and specialise in service and breakdown but you should still have a knowledge of plumbing - that's what it's all about isn't it? How the water makes its' journey. From mains to drain or around a heating circuit, you still need to know how it all fits together.
A Gas Safe engineer should have the knowledge even if they choose not to do the work.

:agreed:
Could not have said it better myself. Unfortunately plenty of gas/heating engineers dont appear to have good plumbing fundamentals which is a problem and just makes it all the more ironic that some customers wont trust a plumber to fit a toilet unless they are gas safe.

 

[Ermintrude]

Ay toilet fitting and gas safe? I have a very sound understanding of plumbing drainage and electrical systems just choose to focus on central heating. But have no formal qualifications in plumbing. Have a few in other disciplines.

 

[solutions]

Ay toilet fitting and gas safe?.

Some customers assume a plumber is better qualified to carry out any and all plumbing because of the gas safe badge. Stupid I know but then most consumers of products and services are stupid. How many times have you had to educate a customer that the dial on the wall is not just a switch but a thermostat and then explain what a thermostat is.

 

[kirkgas]

Was it not the case that plumbers and gas fitters never did each other's work? As both felt their own job too specialised
I'm sure I've heard people say that the old gas board had plumbers and gas guys

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Was it not the case that plumbers and gas fitters never did each other's work? As both felt their own job too specialised
I'm sure I've heard people say that the old gas board had plumbers and gas guys

A plumber is just someone who hasn't got a gas safe badge that's all. Most plumbers could be registered as gas safe, if they wanted to be. It just takes a bit more studying that's all - oh and some extra cash

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

Toddler smashed tiles with cast iron pan mrs let him play with. Doh!!!

better buy copper ones..

 

[Ermintrude]

They would still do the trick.

 

[village idiot]

Im just a plumbing engineer then lol

why a plumbing engineer? why not just call yourself a plumber? what is wrong with being called a plumber?

 

[Best]

why a plumbing engineer? why not just call yourself a plumber? what is wrong with being called a plumber?

A plumber is only a semi skilled manual job, & usually plumbers had few, if any school qualifications.
At least, that's the way it was & what some people think. :smile:
Ask yourself this - If your neighbour is completely stupid, uneducated etc, but does a job as a salesman in a nice smart suit & an expensive company car, - who looks like they have an important job? Him, or you in overalls driving a van?

 

[village idiot]

A plumber is only a semi skilled manual job, & usually plumbers had few, if any school qualifications.
At least, that's the way it was & what some people think. :smile:
Ask yourself this - If your neighbour is completely stupid, uneducated etc, but does a job as a salesman in a nice smart suit & an expensive company car, - who looks like they have an important job? Him, or you in overalls driving a van?

well, I call myself a plumber and take offence if someone or my customers call me by any other name. But now you mention I am uneducated, it all makes sence.

 

[Best]

well, I call myself a plumber and take offence if someone or my customers call me by any other name. But now you mention I am uneducated, it all makes sence.

Lol! Trouble is if you call yourself a plumber, then you will hear some of your customers someday informing you they are getting somebody else for their heating because the guy is a heating engineer & you are just a plumber.
I love it when a customer who assumes I am fairly uneducated, suddenly discovers I know more than they think! :smile:

 

[Ermintrude]

I'm fairly well educated and I call myself a plumber

 

[Ray Stafford]

I find that if I describe myself as a plumber's merchant, most people can't get past the word plumber, and assume that I am a turd-strangler or pipe-monkey. Like I could make a living wrangling poo!

I therefore usually describe myself as a toilet salesman. People can understand that. It still sounds a bit downmarket, but hey - who cares?

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Plumber, Plumbing Engineer; who cares really? All one has to do is do the job properly and take the time to talk to one's customers. That way they'll know if you're educated or not. I have degree & a Post Graduate degree but I class myself as a plumbing and heating engineer because that's what I do. I actually do understand some, not all, of the engineering concepts of plumbing and heating. My customers like to be treated in an'educate' way and I firmly believe that they also like the fact that they have an educated person working in their house as it gives them the peace of mind that I will endeavour to do the job properly. This may just be a perceived notion but it does generate business.

 

[Best]

Other professions generally have job titles that are designed to make the person appear more important, so if they do it, then why shouldn't plumbers who have particular qualifications or experience call themselves engineers etc? First impressions & all that.