Discuss Gurgling and air in central heating in the Central Heating Forum area at PlumbersForums.net

If that schematic is correct then perhaps we have the answer. The pump is pumping towards the point of no pressure change and therefore the system is under negative pressure. Any weak joints will be drawing air in, alternatively the the system being under negative pressure means you will pull any dissolved gases out of solution.
 
The point of no pressure change is where the EV connects into the system and is the EV pressure itself, with the circ pump off then this pressure will be exactly the same throughout the circuit, after allowing for elevation. With the circ pump running, while the pressure where the EV connects to the system will still be exactly the same then its possible to get negative pressure(s) somewhere but only due to pipe friction losses due to blockages?.
Maybe all combis have their EVs connected in likewise, someone might care to watch their own boiler pressure gauges on start up and note whether it rises or falls with pump start and also its magnitude, the one above certainly moves more than I would have expected, even though theoretically possibly correct, possibly pointing to restriction somewhere?

If the system isn't ingesting air then all this air must be trapped since initial filling but as its being slowly vented then the boiler pressure should gradually fall and require top up but it isn't. Perhaps drain the whole system again and fill very slowly stopping to vent from the bottom up.

The only other thing maybe worth checking out is the PHE, if it had a pinhole maybe possible to keep the system nicely topped up from the mains and if its at or near the system pressure then no problem with boiler PRV lifting. but plenty of oxygenated air gaining access.
Suggest shutting off the mains feed at the boiler and open a hot tap and leave open for a few hours with CH in service and see if any change in behaviour, presume the diverter valve isolates the primary water from the PHE but something may still show up.

A interesting riddle alright.
 
If the pump is pumping towards the vessel then the entire system will be under a negative pressure, from the pump suction side right the way back to the vessel.
 
Yes, so my above comment wasn't worded correctly. The pump will maintain a differential pressure though. Therefore if it's only able to increase pressure slightly on the discharge the rest will be seen as a negative pressure on the suction side.
 
The point of no pressure change is where the EV connects into the system and is the EV pressure itself, with the circ pump off then this pressure will be exactly the same throughout the circuit, after allowing for elevation. With the circ pump running, while the pressure where the EV connects to the system will still be exactly the same then its possible to get negative pressure(s) somewhere but only due to pipe friction losses due to blockages?.
Maybe all combis have their EVs connected in likewise, someone might care to watch their own boiler pressure gauges on start up and note whether it rises or falls with pump start and also its magnitude, the one above certainly moves more than I would have expected, even though theoretically possibly correct, possibly pointing to restriction somewhere?

If the system isn't ingesting air then all this air must be trapped since initial filling but as its being slowly vented then the boiler pressure should gradually fall and require top up but it isn't. Perhaps drain the whole system again and fill very slowly stopping to vent from the bottom up.

The only other thing maybe worth checking out is the PHE, if it had a pinhole maybe possible to keep the system nicely topped up from the mains and if its at or near the system pressure then no problem with boiler PRV lifting. but plenty of oxygenated air gaining access.
Suggest shutting off the mains feed at the boiler and open a hot tap and leave open for a few hours with CH in service and see if any change in behaviour, presume the diverter valve isolates the primary water from the PHE but something may still show up.

A interesting riddle alright.

If I understand: the EV can cause negative pressure in the system. So a weak point/pin hole leak could be anywhere?

Your suggestion is:
  1. switch off the main feed (the cold water?)
  2. switch CH to service (not sure how to do this? Just switch to hot water only?)
  3. Run hot tap in the kitchen for a couple hours
  4. Watch for pressure drop/change?
 
@SJB060685 and @John.g...

I'm off next week so will fit an isolation valve to the leaky NRV. I'll also try the steps suggested above.

Sounds like I'm getting closer to the dreaded "replace all the pipework in the house"?

Supposed to be getting carpets fitted in 3 weeks. The last in the house after a 7 year renovation in my spare time. Oh well, better know now before getting the carpet fitters in... 🙃
 
If I understand: the EV can cause negative pressure in the system. So a weak point/pin hole leak could be anywhere?

Your suggestion is:
  1. switch off the main feed (the cold water?)
  2. switch CH to service (not sure how to do this? Just switch to hot water only?)
  3. Run hot tap in the kitchen for a couple hours
  4. Watch for pressure drop/change?

I don't think the EV is causing negative pressure Jim.

Re 1 to 4 above .

Shut either valve 13 in schematic post 80, or just shut the main stopcock, either will cut off the cold water supply to the combi side of the boiler, open any hot tap, (hot) water flow should stop.
Ensure boiler on CH say like now, just watch the pressure gauge for few hours for any change.
When complete shut hot tap and restore the cold water.

Just trying to establish if there is a leak between the mains and the boiler "water" via the HW heat exchanger. (PHE).
 
I don't think the EV is causing negative pressure Jim.

Re 1 to 4 above .

Shut either valve 13 in schematic post 80, or just shut the main stopcock, either will cut off the cold water supply to the combi side of the boiler, open any hot tap, (hot) water flow should stop.
Ensure boiler on CH say like now, just watch the pressure gauge for few hours for any change.
When complete shut hot tap and restore the cold water.

Just trying to establish if there is a leak between the mains and the boiler "water" via the HW heat exchanger. (PHE).

Ok, gotcha. Thanks.

I can do this tomorrow (probably -- weather dependent!).

Do you want me to run the CH as normal (Tado switches various rooms on/off during the day)?
 
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