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ShaunCorbs

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[video=youtube;Uiz4RU3TP-0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uiz4RU3TP-0&itct=CBMQpDAYAyITCMmRv_DF28wCFQetFgoddg0L9TIHcmV sYXRlZEjl-rSM6tW4hMMB&app=desktop[/video]

[video=youtube;QNw75cPQulk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNw75cPQulk[/video]

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keep changing parts until you fix it :D
 
I hate these Shaun they shouldn't be allowed to put videos like this on the Internet
 
They never have had any teeth, even when they were Corgi. Some of the shyte you see is unbelievable. But you know it's a waste of time reporting it. It really gets tiresome.
 
I have had two of them in the past month where people have self diagnosed ordered the parts and then asked me to fit it. And what a surprise they were wrong
 
You start to feel that nothing will change as there is just a general don't care attitude with a lot of the Gas Safe employees. I have to say not all but more and more you have people reading from a script that do not understand the topic
 
he started taking advice from the comments :D

my view (gas safe) they either go whole hog cant by anything regarding gas either spares or appliances or they get rid of gas safe and the rules and anybody can touch gas because were half there atm

we spend x amount every 5 years (1200 normally about) and how many rouges/ non gas safe (good ones that slip though) are there doing the work
 
The problem with that is there is generally no deterrent to doing gas work illegally The possible threat of getting a fine is counterbalanced by however many installs they got away with doing before they've been caught
 
The problem with that is there is generally no deterrent to doing gas work illegally The possible threat of getting a fine is counterbalanced by however many installs they got away with doing before they've been caught

one way chop a hand off as there putting other peoples lives in there hands
 
Oh don't get me wrong mate I totally agree. Problem is it's essentially become too big a problem now for them to fix. I have just started coming across a massive spate of appalling installs. All put in by the same group of five foreign lads ( not that their race religion creed or nationality should matter), however they are one of these done before lunchtime set ups literally throw the boiler on the wall, piping done in plastic, Basic install details ignored such as sealing around the flue. And of course the benchmark is ignored. A mate of mine got so hacked off with them stealing work in his area that he confronted them as obviously none of them are Gas Safe they just laughed at him and said report us if you like. Apparently they had been reported on at least three other occasions and nothing at all happened they seem to think because they can do these things at home that it doesn't matter here and sadly Gas Safe are just reinforcing this view if they don't tackle it
 
agree but bet you if one of us step out of line (gas safe reg) the difference/ punishment would be worse as they see us a competent but they see the illegal lot as dont know any better

is it worth it any more
 
I know exactly what you mean mate. I do quite a lot of work for very responsible people who always ask for credentials. So I need to renew or I'll lose a lot of work. I think half the battle is I thinked I think half the battle is education I had to explain to a bloke in a letting agent that a gas safety and boiler service were two very different things the other day. This prat had been telling all of his landlords that they were getting a boiler service every year
 
I know exactly what you mean mate. I do quite a lot of work for very responsible people who always ask for credentials. So I need to renew or I'll lose a lot of work. I think half the battle is I thinked I think half the battle is education I had to explain to a bloke in a letting agent that a gas safety and boiler service were two very different things the other day. This prat had been telling all of his landlords that they were getting a boiler service every year

spot on iv been asked 3 times for my gas safe card (without prompt) and unless your bg then they are two different things :D
 
But this is half the battle. Another letting agent that I do a lot of stuff for who are extremely good were trying to be a little bit proactive regarding carbon monoxide alarms and the poor property manager found three different versions of the rules all telling him something different and two of these were via renowned landlord/letting agent advisors.
 
I agree mate. If my memory serves me correctly I think someone on here did it a couple of years ago we always get that same response though that people i.e. the public think we are trying to close ranks and make it a closed shop in terms of earnings. What I do like about this site is there are a lot of people on here Who are actually very passionate about gas safety but you guarantee if you went 10 minutes down the road where any of us lived youd find somebody who was stealing our work
 
I agree mate. If my memory serves me correctly I think someone on here did it a couple of years ago we always get that same response though that people i.e. the public think we are trying to close ranks and make it a closed shop in terms of earnings. What I do like about this site is there are a lot of people on here Who are actually very passionate about gas safety but you guarantee if you went 10 minutes down the road where any of us lived youd find somebody who was stealing our work
ideal scenario...60% of gsr protest about sale of gas products to public, insurance companies not making it mandatory to have gs cert every 12 months to validate insurance premiums etc. they will have to respond as the core members would make the whole set up of gas safe worthless!!
 
The whole sale to the public thing is so difficult though as Ray has pointed out on numerous occasions when you start selling to big companies or to housing associations that sort of thing immediately the people that are buying it are not going to be Gas Safe. The other suggestion was that your gas safe card has a microchip which you need in order to commission appliances. Problem with that is the technology is going to cost us the gas safe engineer a fortune no doubt
 
so then, the legal aspect of it is a farce!

if just anyone can buy spares then you cant be held accountable to fitting them as it was sold to repair!!!!!!!
same as smoking, if you can buy them over 18yrs but you die..tough luck!

like to see that one in the high court.
 
Regarding your points about insurance and things like that I would love to see this enforced it just leaves the door open to abuse to those who are not informed. I have lost track of the amount of people that have contacted me in the last couple of months as they are selling their property and the buyer wants some sort of gas documentation it's one of those bolting the stable door after the horse has gone type scenarios One woman expected me to give her a full service history for a boiler that had been in 15 years and had never seen an engineer. Said I'd do a llgs and that's it then she argued about everything I picked up
 
so then, the legal aspect of it is a farce!

if just anyone can buy spares then you cant be held accountable to fitting them as it was sold to repair!!!!!!!
same as smoking, if you can buy them over 18yrs but you die..tough luck!

like to see that one in the high court.
I know, as I said mate it almost needs a new organisation to come in a bit heavy handed as gas safe seem to have become a bit of a soft touch
 
I know, as I said mate it almost needs a new organisation to come in a bit heavy handed as gas safe seem to have become a bit of a soft touch

dont think they ever swung the hammer to be honest they have always been a feather
 
The whole sale to the public thing is so difficult though as Ray has pointed out on numerous occasions when you start selling to big companies or to housing associations that sort of thing immediately the people that are buying it are not going to be Gas Safe.

my view tough poo there the biggest dodgers of the lot, might be able to get a fair wage at the end of it

think the county needs to go cold turkey regarding the lot nothing sold or bought without a gas safe card no matter what
 
Agreed mate but we need an organisation strong enough to enforce it. As with so many of these things money is the root of all evil and those bigger companies that stamp their feet get their own way
 
Agreed mate but we need an organisation strong enough to enforce it. As with so many of these things money is the root of all evil and those bigger companies that stamp their feet get their own way

thats what i was getting at
60% vote of no confidence!!!!!!!!
 
Don't even know where to begin with complaining about it
 
The hole gas safe/corgi is just a money pot if you ask me, you can make more money doing illegal installs and paying the small fine then doing it legitimately
 
The hole gas safe/corgi is just a money pot if you ask me, you can make more money doing illegal installs and paying the small fine then doing it legitimately

That maybe true but I could not sleep at night if I did that
 
With GS being owned/ran by Capita and the government seemingly in Capita's pocket I can't really see anything changing.

It'll take something like the MP's daughter dying in a house fire started by an electrical fault that hugely accelerated the part P mess before anyone takes us seriously.
 
But based on the news and HSE reports there are near misses and the occasional death more often than I think they'd like to admit. Funny how we never hear the follow up to it. Makes you wonder if it's just brushed under the carpet almost as if the don't want to or can't deal with it
 
It's going to have to happen to someone that the government care about for it to change though. They don't give a monkeys about us plebs.
 
It's going to have to happen to someone that the government care about for it to change though. They don't give a monkeys about us plebs.

True enough
 
We are doing now what we will always do about gas safe nothing absolute nothing other than moan about them.
I know builders that can phone up gas safe get advice which defeats all the idea of 'gas safe '
 
Thing is I'd be happy to try and initiate some sort of complaint or petition but I just don't know where to start where it would actually get seriously looked at
 
Trouble is no one apart from gas safe engineers actually care, I've had loads of people ask if I can do gas, I'm not gas safe so I can't on my own, they always say they dont mind if I'm not gas safe they wont tell anyone,
 
That's where the problem is. A lack of legal visibility paired with a lack of deterrent
 
The only way anything will change is if enough people die in a short period of time all from illegal installs

You could make it change if a no confidence petition was signed but would need about 100 k engineers to sign it.

Doubt the majority will care tho .
 
Exactly. That would also involve the government admitting that the wrong company were appointed which won't happen
 
currently its more of a licence scheme in the guise of a competent person scheme.
 
You could make it change if a no confidence petition was signed but would need about 100 k engineers to sign it.

Doubt the majority will care tho .

i dont think in this case it has to be 100k as its sort of closed shop ie. not general consensous to the public!
i also think that the majority/51% is enough to swing national focus.

the 'register' to me is like the guy at the car boot gate charging you a quid just to let you buy something and charging the vendors to sell you something! in effect, he does feck all but without paying you wont get feckall!
create a hole in the fence and thats where all the illegals get in.
stop going and the 'car boot' no longer operates. complain in numbers to the council and it gets shut down or told to improve!:)
 
But based on the news and HSE reports there are near misses and the occasional death more often than I think they'd like to admit. Funny how we never hear the follow up to it. Makes you wonder if it's just brushed under the carpet almost as if the don't want to or can't deal with it

I'm going to take the unpopular position here.

Regardless of what individual experiences may be, or what anecdotal evidence may be quoted, the overall statistics suggest that CORGI did a good job, and that GASSAFE continue to improve the situation.

Lets start from the basics. The job of Gas Safe is to make (pardon the obvious) GAS SAFE.

That is to say, its job is to protect the public from harm caused by gas.

We have quite a good system of autopsy and inquest in the UK, and when someone dies of CO poisoning or as a consquence of an explosion the cause is usually identified and recorded.

Here is a graph showing deaths from CO poisoning by all fuel types, by Mains Gas, and by gas explosion.

CO deaths.jpg

We also record "near misses" - hospitalisations, losses of consciousness etc due to CO poisoning. These figures are not quite so accurate because of improvements in diagnosis and reporting standards, and so probably understates the improvement.
CO near misses.jpg

If I were GasSafe, I would argue firmly on my track record. If you want them to make a change to their current way of working, you have to demonstrate that your proposed new policy will be more effective in preventing deaths and near-misses than the current approach.

Don't forget the law of unintended consequences. Restricting sales to GSR (which is an impractical idea for reasons I have bored the forum with before) only prevents the idiot landlord from buying a brand new kosher appliance from a reputable dealer. It does not prevent him from purchasing an old wreck from ebay or down the pub, or indeed from connecting up the gas cooker with garden hose, because no-one will sell him a proper cooker hose. It is entirely possible that a well meaning restriction on the sale of parts will result in MORE death and injury than the current situation.

Having talked at length to a leading campaigner on CO deaths, I am told that there is little correlation between the (thankfully quite small) number of deaths, and the registration status of the installer. In many cases the killer appliances have been neglected and untouched by any engineer for many years. In other cases, sadly, even registered GSRs do stupid things sometimes. So whilst it might be intuitive to think that 100% GSR registration compliance would lead to zero deaths, unfortunately, this is unlikely to prove to be the case.

Yesterday, I was with a well known boiler manufacturer and talking about this issue. He was telling me that in the future, he expected that setting up new appliances may require an app on the engineers phone, which would link to the appliance, either by bluetooth or hard-wire, or wi-fi. In any event, restricting the app (for instance to work only if registered to a current GSR) would prevent installation and commissioning by unregistered engineers. This would seem an excellent way forward - better even than my smart card idea mentioned in earlier posts.

But sadly, some people will still die.
 
Totally agree with all you say Ray, my issue comes where Gas Safe do not protect the industry. Bodgitt & Legitt can still install an illegal boiler and essentially they are stealing food off the table of everyone here who has a yellow badge to their name on here.

I think everyone on this thread has made valid contribution but I can't help feeling that recording and reporting back is letting the industry down. I'm not trying to say that gas safe are necessarily a large corrupt organisation but the same thing was brought up with multiple police forces across the country recently when crimes were being recorded or classified intentionally wrongly in order to help the stats. Knife crime was one I remember and many forces had been completely reclassifying it so that they could say knife crime was on the fall however another lesser crime was on the rise, but as the government were targeting knife crime everyone was happy.

I just struggle to believe that after seeing some of the appalling brand new installs I have recently that issues are on the fall. If anything I'm seeing more and more each week. There is the argument that new appliances are "too safe" (new boilers specifically) obviously not a terrible thing as it keeps people safer when we aren't having to worry about ventilation and the like but all the same they should be installed and set up correctly by a gas safe engineer. I can't remember how many builders and diyers that have called me in the last 12 months asking me to come and commission this or that or "just connect the gas". It needs regulating full stop. Whether it be by app or our gas safe cards attach via chip and pin to the appliance we have to stop people DIYing and thinking it's clever. Problem with these sorts is that they are the type that would tell their friends how easy it is and look how much money I've saved.

I don't mean to rant but I'm getting sick of losing jobs where I'm being undercut by the unqualified. To another engineer fair enough as that's business but not these idiots with a total disregard for the safety of themselves and others
 
my issue comes where Gas Safe do not protect the industry.

I don't think that its their job to protect the industry Matt.

Gas safe is a public safety organisation, not the trade union for gas engineers.

The figures that I quoted were compiled by an independent charity campaigning for carbon monoxide safety, set up I believe by the parent of a child who died from CO poisoning, so they gave little to gain by understating statistics.

LPG and solid fuel are responsible for far more deaths in proportion to the commonness of the fuel type, which may be for a variety of reasons - I suspect that people with boats and caravans tend towards unwise DIY, and probably people under-rate the risk of solid fuel.

If you really want to save lives, then campaign for mandatory smoke and CO alarms in all domestic property.

If you want to campaign on behalf of gas engineers, thats also a perfectly legitimate thing to do, and I would happily support you, but not to the extent of encouraging restrictive business practices based on safety claims that are not supported by the facts.
 
I understand your point Ray and I do agree. I am 100% with you that you can't restrict sales. I just feel that by gas safe actually clamping down on the illegals then vicariously they are protecting the industry, even if they don't call it that.

I do push CO alarms but the uptake is so negative because people just see it as another expense. A landlord actually turned round to me and said he wouldn't pay for them in his properties as the fire service would install them for free. All people see are pound signs rather than what these products could actually save them in the long term ie their lives.

Please don't think I'm belittling the solid fuels and oil as I can only talk about what I know. I'm just seeing such an increase in clearly DIY carp installs that I cannot believe figures are improving. Fatalities perhaps and near misses, which again is a good thing but I don't think they're anywhere even close to getting rid of the illegal fitters nor do they seem to be making it a priority

Just my opinion of course and I know not everyone will agree
 
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In the refrigeration industry, regulation came into force 01/01/2015 to prevent non register persons from buying refrigerant which has got rid of the average gas ago brigade, something similar should be done in the gas industry but I don't believe that's its gas safes job to do it gisur maybe
 
i like the idea for your gas safe card to have a chip in it covering your appliances and if that was coupled to the pcb of a boiler to commision it etc. couild be used over counters too for one price, another if you dont have one££££.
the grid have special cards for meters, if we had one to be able to turn meter/appliance on off. just possibilities!!
 
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