Flushing a micro-bore system with British Gas or Npower

[Jamie13]

Hello

I wonder if anyone has experience of the relative merits of British Gas versus Npower for flushing an old central heating system.

We need to have our central heating system flushed as the radiators have needed re-balancing more and more over the past few of years. We have a BG Homecare agreement and an engineer comes out on either the same or next day and does a good job getting all the radiators hot again. This last year though after each balancing they said either the system would need flushing or else a new central heating system fitted. Last week they couldn't get it up to full heating and said full system flush was needed - cost £1200

Our central heating is old - over 20years - micro-bore with 9 radiators - but BG fitted a new boiler less than 10 years ago and they say the boiler is still fine.

The BG engineer said that because the system was small-bore - it would take 2 engineers to remove each radiator to flush them, and then they would flush out the piping system. If the flush doesn't improve things then the price would be refunded. This sounded reasonable to me so we have them booked for 10 days time.

Then a relative comes through and basically says BG are incompetent crooks as they have just had Npower flush their central heating system for £3000. That included an extra safety outlet pipe, a system of 18 radiators with wide bore piping flushed, plus a Magnet Filter fitted for "FREE". She implies we are crazy for paying our £17 per month BG Homecare when for the next 3 years their cover is free and after that they will get Npower cover for £49 per year. I queried her about the flushing and she doesn't think Npower actually removed the radiators to flush them but just flushed the whole system.

I have looked through the web and seen some bad coverage on the Npower £49 per year cover but about the actual quality of flushing versus price I don't have much clue.

I don't think my relative and I are comparing like with like - as ours is an old micro-bore system and theirs is a much newer wider bore system.

Clearly I'm not an engineer so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[P4ULT]

get a quote from a local company the prices you are quoting are mental. i could probably fit a new boiler and powerflush the system for that £3000 price. should be able to get a powerflush for around £300-500 dependant on your system.

 

[Jamie13]

get a quote from a local company the prices you are quoting are mental. i could probably fit a new boiler and powerflush the system for that £3000 price. should be able to get a powerflush for around £300-500 dependant on your system.

Thank you for the info - its a real eyeopener - i have done a quick search and there is even one local offering Powerflush for £295.

I'm puzzled though - on their web sites they say that their work entails connecting a powerful pump to the system and they make no mention of removing any radiators for flushing. Some of them will only work on modern systems as well - no mention of what modern means except combi which ours is.

The British Gas engineer said that normal powerflushing wouldn't work on our system due to the very old small-bore pipes (micro-bore i think) and so each radiator would have to be disconnected - hence 2 engineers.
I don't know if this is true about old small-bores systems needing their radiators taking off for a powerflush?

 

[Winston]

I havent heard of rads coming off for power flushing!

 

[P4ULT]

to be fair mate if the pipes cant be flushed what is the point in cleaning rads a powerflush will do the job if it doesnt then its quite likely the whole lot will need replacing.

 

[radswilldo]

Do yourself a favour. Big company syndrome, love it, ecspecially when they're foreign(british gas etc).

 

[mark.brazenor@b]

For that price I'll include a new boiler not just a magna clean.

The only time I would remove each rad to flush is on a one pipe system.

In my area the average price for a powerflush on a 9 rad system is circa. £350

 

[radswilldo]

Average price I come across is between 400-500(6-8rads), though it is dependent on the amount of rads. I actually dont do power fluhing.

 

[pauls]

cant see why powerflushing micro bore should be more expencive bg pulling another fast one

 

[REDSAW]

i will re-pipe your whole system in 22/15mm for £1200 gladley, out with the old in with the new. new boiler another £1,000.

 

[Jamie13]

Thanks for all the replies - they have helped clear a lot up.

It really does look now as if my relative with the modern central heating who paid £3000 for work involving mainly a Powerflush from Npower paid well over the odds - overcharged - ripped off - not sure what to call it.

About our £1200 BG quoted price for our micro-bore system - it still sounds too high to me even with the extra work of taking all the radiators off and flushing them - i doubt their engineers are on that high a wage for a days work. I found a web link that agrees with the posts here about micro-bore having more problems than wider bore systems:-

Water Treatment: Power Flushing Microbore

Basically he says that if the system is totally clogged the only way to clear it might be to remove each radiator then Powerflush and even then it might not work. As some of you have said - the system might need replacing.

After we get this sorted out I'll post a reply as to how things went with this micro-bore system.

 

[P4ULT]

what area are you in why dont you give one of the guys on here ago if anyone is near you. after all we are all offering our advice.

 

[radswilldo]

I urge you that before paying out that money, get local plumbers to give you an estimate to replace your rads and piping. Honestly, you might as well burn £1200.

 

[RoryD]

Ah Well all! If the ras are on 'drops' then draining down won't get rid of the more obstinate sludge laying in the bottom flushing or no. If your rads are 6mm then forget having it flushed (if there is a blockage) you'd need to repipe. For 10 rads a flush is around £560 for a straight forward flush, which is pricey, but it is done right and guaranteed for life!! your case seems exceptional and pretty expensive. I'm fed up with people going to 'Grabbit & Runn', paying £300 only to need it doing 12 months later. I'm sure there are plenty of non BG guys more than capable to do it, but there are blokes out there who haven't a clue...and you won't get them back. I think you meant £300 not £3000 for Npower, Compare the deals that are being offered.

 

[Jamie13]

We got the job done by British Gas about a week ago and my mother is really pleased with it. She has just paid the £1220 bill today after waiting in case there were problems. All our radiators are now working fully - and now the boiler temperature dial requires less than half to give the same heat as before on maximum.

About the work done. Two BG engineers removed all the 9 radiators and flushed them down our manhole cover - an amazing amount of silt etc came out. They also fitted a MagnaClean for "Free". It took them about 5 hours in all and they were working all the time - no skiving off - they did a great job.

It does sound pricey considering the advice given here and after checking with some local firms online. However my mother wanted peace of mind and has always gone with British gas.

The nPower Central Heating work for my sister - unfortunately it was £3000 - and not £300. Her two engineers were only there for a couple of hours and just Power Flushed her system, added a MagnaClean and lengthened her over-flow pipe. They also included 3 years cover they valued at £600.

Thanks again for all the advice given - it really helped a lot - and by the way we are near Sunderland in the North East.

 

[Puddle]

Thanks for the feed back Jamie13,it is good to find out how things turned out and although I am not a British gas fan ,they do have some good tradesmen working for them and am pleased your mums happy with the way everything turned out
Now you can sit back and watch those gas bills drop

 

[jimk280]

British Gas and EON are on a drive at the moment to put some money in their coffers! please do not pay for this. Go to Checkatrade & get a local company to do it for approx £500 max.

Jim

British gas & EON....lol...please don't tell me you've got more money than sense. This is my opinion only but they are trying to make a fast buck. try checkatrade for a local plumber who'll do as good a job, if not better, for around £500.

jim

 

[smoggs03]

yes BG do have some great engineers,, and changes are happening right now to ensure they are the majority, also the prices are set to tumble as part of that money in coffers scheme. you would be foolish not to get a quote at least

 

[radswilldo]

Any of you had letters from bg asking you to contract to them, had one in sept, ignored it.

 

[smoggs03]

reason for them is industrial action so they need cover.. also they've changed/changing the business going for lower prices but need greater volumes to achieve profits

 

[jimk280]

Smoggs, I wasn't knocking the guys who work at the 'coal face' for BG. You're probably one of them by the sounds of it. They're doing their job and they have got some good guys who have a breadth of experience no doubt. If the shareholders at BG didn't lower their prices then i'm afraid they'd be a target for BBC Watchdog and if I paid £3k recently like the poor person previous in the thread I'd be straight on the phone to rogue traders! High volume lower prices..don't make me laugh that's how the majority of honest self employed sole traders do day to day business.

Jim

 

[smoggs03]

did i say half the sales force are going and office staff and its gonna be the engineers quoting jobs lets face it there is no future any other way..

 

[Kip]

Got to love British Gas, they do give the trade a bad name.

Was in a house last week and the customers had BG out looking at their boiler as they'd just got the cover and they come inspect it, after he'd done his inspection he then started to become a sales man, "id recommend getting a carbon monoxide detecter next to your boiler", i was actually stood next to them and i said it would actually be more use next to the fire than the flaming boiler as its a room sealed combi...then it was the magna-clean next, "we also recommend you get one of these, keeps your system sparkling clean, £400 fitted i think he said, i just had to butt in again and said ill do it for half that. Really tho, BG **** me off.

 

[smoggs03]

hahaha bet that guy loves you too.... but yeah thats homecare i hate them too

 

[RoryD]

My cards are always on the table, can't explain why your flush was £1200, perhaps it was so blocked up that cutting out was necessary (= more man hours). You do get what you pay for in this world, vis - a vis BG prices. I've lost count of the number of folk who have gone 3rd party rather than BG, only for me to return and inform them ...they still got sludge. As said before there are non BG blokes out there who can do it, thing is finding them.

just pleased you're pleased

 

[smoggs03]

i'm an installer so have nothing at all to do with repairs/services.. the usual route is to advise a new boiler which will fix everything, in which case i turn up fit new boiler and .........hey presto 4k all works leaving me to fix a cruddy system as well!!!! but 1200 can't work that out and i have price lists??? can only assume each rad needed hand flushing so labour charge x2 but fully qualified engineers??? dunno quessing

 

[RoryD]

Good call smoggs, unusual to have 2 x blokes on the job so there were extenuating circumstances for sure. If I visit 8 x properties in a day, at least half would have sludge. Why don't installers insist on powerflushing before installing new boilers? I don't know if it is workable but I'm considering it wen I decide to go it alone - is it feasable?

 

[jimk280]

In my experience you need 2 guys to powerflush properly. Each rad needs to be flushed and reverse flushed individually and if there's more than 12 rads in a system you'll be working all day. I've yet to find a system i've flushed that doesn't have a couple of leaking lockshield valves that require changing. Powerflushing before installing a new boiler or before commissioning makes sense. I do warranty work for one of the largest oil boiler manufacturers in the UK and I've lost count of the expansion vessels i've changed that are full of black iron oxide due to an installer not flushing correctly. For a dirty system you can't beat a powerflush as long as it's carried out correctly. Sitting in a van for hours reading your paper while the machine flushes is NOT the correct way to flush. I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[RoryD]

Kip, CO Detectors are NOT a pitch, they are best advice which is an industry thing not just BG. The other stuff ...you could have a point, that's the pressure we are all up against. Drop the hang up about BG engineers tho, we use the site too, ppl who fire snidey shots from the comfort of this place **** me off (touche), you should have told him there and then mateand debated it in front of the customer.