church heating

[mike_s]

Has anybody got experience with this? I have heated a smaller church successfully with radiators but now I have a job to improve a heating system for a larger church and especially as they will be gaining access to funding for the job then I need to get it right first time.

The church has been getting lots of complaints of being too cold.
Challenges with this job are: Preventing cold down draughts, heat the lower areas of the church with a quiet system that blends in to the traditional decor.

There is already a wet system in place. The boilers are working fine and the pipework is getting hot but all they have are some natural convector boxes with pipework with fins on running through them which is doing a poor job of heating the place.

I am yet to do the heat loss requirements but I need to settle on a method first. I have done hours of research on church heating and given the size of the hall 17m long by 13m by 10m high with no insulation and large windows if I heated this place with radiators alone to 20 degrees C may cost too much to run, they may take up too much space and look ugly. They would like them to be low surface temperature as well.

From my research the most practical and comfortable method seems to be by improving the wet heating system heating the air combining it with radiant heaters where the air temperature would only need to be heated to around 15 degrees or even as low as 10 degrees going off the charts I have seen.

I could use gas fired radiant plaque heaters or infra red radiant quartz heaters.

I could also install some electric pew heaters and a wet system or electric air curtain above the door as the pipework enters around here.

I could utilize a destratisfication fan if needed?

underfloor or warm air heating ducted through the floor would be a last restort and probably too expensive.

Would love to hear from someone who has experience on this as I really want to come up with the right solution. Thanks.

Depending on the replys I get here I plan to speak to AmbiRad, SpaceRay and some specialist church heating equipment manufacturers.

 

[WHPES]

Know of a local church that has a wet system running under the pews coupled with quartz radiant heaters and apparently it keeps the congregation warm without costing too much to run. Problem with radiators is the heat just goes straight up into the roof and is replaced by cold air at feet level. Destratification fan is a good idea but it must be low noise.

 

[on31ll]

the biggest problem as you have said with a church is the insulation. obviously without putting yourself out of a job have you advised them on insulation of sorts if its atall possible ? how hot is the system doing thats in now obviously you say there is complaints but what temps is it heating the room to ? redesigning this with some other forms of heating you suggest might be cheapest and easiest to do ! although i dont think the job is going to be easy atall ! rip it out and install UFH !

 

[Dotty]

Rerouting the pipework under the pews is your best option.

 

[Scott_D]

Fin vectors/heating coils under pews
maybe high level fans to help circulate the warm air that will gather up near the roof

 

[on31ll]

or just give the oldies blankets !

 

[stani]

Mike, 95% of my work is in vicarages, and they always ask can you look at the church heating, 1 st thing is to find out if there is a listing for the building, it should also go through the Diosese architect, basically so you don't fit some massive bright yellow and green striped fan heaters and ruin the building, I would start there first and save a lot of work for your self.
a lot of churches here which aren't of a listed building nature use Drugasar heaters.
steve

 

[mike_s]

Cheers for the replies, very helpful, I've even ordered the book from the church council on church heating for some ideas.

I will look at running the pipework under the floors and pews as well as the feasability of underfloor heating but with the new floor to go with the underfloor heating this may be too costly.

So are radiant gas plaque heaters not a viable option? Or are the quartz better, cheaper to install perhaps with not needing to the run the gas pipe but they would need fuse spurs fitting everywhere anyway. I want to quote for the best job for them but not do myself out of a job if possible. Yes I suggested having some insulating boards fitted to the ceiling but they would still need to improve their heating system.

I need to have another look to explore the feasability of these options. What kind of heaters are those Drugasar's stani? I will check if it is listed but I doubt it as it seemed to be only me concerned of the look, I don't even want to fit a load of panel radiators but they just want comfort really.

Also I forgot to say that they have an existing large fan convector up in the organ room near the roof heated by the central heating system. It blows cold air although the flow and return are hot, I may need to put a new heat exchanger in if possible. Would this help combat the cold draughts? They think when this was working then they didn't get the complaints but it seems a costly to repair or replace when I'm not sure how well it will work. I thought they may just heat the roofs but from what they say maybe it prevented the cold down draughts? Due to the noise they only had it on prior to the sessions then turned it off once the service started. I wanted to abandon the idea of restoring it and come up with a quieter solution with radiant heating but I'm still concerned about the down draughts which is their biggest problem.

 

[stani]

Drufire - Church heating
try this link, hope its gets you on the right road.

 

[Barry98]

Underground heating most church have big gardens

 

[stani]

Try and get them away from LSTs, most churches can only afford to have the heating on for short periods just before services, LSTs need to be on for an awful long time to actually get any benefit, they would only just be getting aired and they would be turned off. Definitely not a good idea.

 

[mike_s]

Going for 6 x 8.8kw radiant gas plaque heaters fitted 4M high. I've specified the job with the manufacturers and these will cover the floor area. Just measured up and I need to run 65M of gas pipe! Hope I get the job, all the manufacturers I've looked at advertise them as a good solution for church heating and I've done my research well. For this job I'm sure it is the best solution. I even found a church not too far away with these fitted so the church leaders are going to have a look to see them in action.

 

[on31ll]

Sounds like a nice job really then ! 65m of gas pipe, thats an install in itself.

 

[mike_s]

yes it is, just priced up the pipework and fittings, £850 plus vat. Found the heaters online for about £1,500 quid for the lot. The brand is RVR, identical spec to the ambi rads and half the price, havn't priced up shipping yet though and think they are stocked abroad. Electrician only quoted £180 to fit 6 fuse spurs plus an rcd master switch. I'll also price in a control panel with black bulb radiant temperature sensor as an optional extra. Will work it out and send the quote over the weekend, should get an answer next week. Fingers crossed as would be a rewarding job.

Problem with any kind of convected air heating is that they only need the church warm a few hours a week and would take hours to heat up and cost too much. The surfaces would still be cold too making the people feel cold. Radiant heating is pretty much instant, heats up the surfaces as well as the people and you don't need to waste energy heating the air in the ceiling which also causes cold downdraughts. These radiant heaters are quiet and don't look too bad angle mounted on the walls.

I'm leaving in the existing fin convector heaters just to take the chill off the air but the manufacturers reckon they won't need it. I can abandon the fan blower in the organ room too.