can you refill rothenberger gas bottles/canisters ?

[northstar]

Hi all does anyone know if you can refill rothenberger gas bottles/canisters, if so how much does it cost?

 

[dontknowitall]

I'd like to know the answer too as in this day and age of chuck as soon as it's empty, it seems a real waste of a good lump of metal.

Surely there should be a deposit system where you can take back your empties and buy a refill (much the same as Budget gas, etc)? Maybe there is and all I do is ask my merchant?

 

[tonto33]

ihave adaptor like this YouTube - 1lb cyclinder refill

 

[northstar]

tonto33 where did you buy your adaptor form?

 

[tonto33]

Local camping shop

 

[northstar]

how much ? thanks

 

[quality]

I made my own with a couple of adaptors and a bit of hose, the fitting for the rothenberger is metric a company called aeroquip make fittings for it, available from hydraulic suppliers

 

[tonto33]

bout 12 quid

 

[gassafe]

There are definitly refill "adapters" out there! I once saw them on sale on E##y for about £10.00. They allowed a rothenberger type bottle to be re-filled for a fraction of the cost from a larger camping style bottle.
The bottles do however say "do not refill" on them, this may well be to make more money selling you another overpriced gas bottle however!!!
I will defs buy one next time i see one!

 

[oldplumber]

thats all ok but remember guys these bottles have been designed for once only use and tested to that effect. if you constantly fill and empty them they are undergoing pressure changes they are not designed or tested for. long term result a van full or gas or worse still customer kitchen filled up and then emptied of propane rather too quickly. because you have used a bottle in the manner it was not designed for then your insurance wont apply. so there you are burnt like an overcooked lobster and all the new kitchen units are now in the garden and your insurance is null and void. All to save a few pence, its not worth it really is it. Remember storage bottles for gas and air etc that are multiple use are subject to annual pressure tests, rothenburger ones arent so you never know if they are safe to use a 2nd, 3rd or 4th time!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i agree with oldplumber, is it really worth taking the risk.

 

[quality]

About 15+ years ago I install a primus filling station in milton keynes or round abouts. the only danger to refilling these canisters as they are know is not to introduce air which contains oxygen which can cause internal corrosion.
These canisters have a shelf life of 10 years which is half of their life expectancy and so long as they are not rusty or full of dents refilling them is no big issue
That rubbish about your insurance being void (it may be fact) but it is the rubbish, most folk have drove the vehicle today above the speed limit - there are police out there to catch you doing this!
There are no rothenburger refilling police

 

[oldplumber]

Im not saying there are refilling police but pointing out what happens when it all goes wrong. If you use refillable cylenders then they are given annual pressure test certificates for each cylinder and if its for air no test ticket no fills. same for acetylene cyls, boc have to carry out tests on them. When you see what happens to a simple cylinder when it fails on air alone, the mind boggles if you do the same with propane. And if you say that the bit about the insurers not covering you, then Im afraid youre being rather naive as these institutions will do anything not to pay out, its in their nature and if they can find you at fault they will, as do car insurers who will refuse to pay out if you have modified your vehicle and failed to inform them of the changes, driving over the speed limit doesnt really apply to this discussion

 

[quality]

Thats ok I agree but we will do what we want when we need if we want
I enjoy this forum as you do I am not trying to argy bargy
but regs are there to comply with and I do comply with all, but these canisters / bottles what ever folk call them are filled and shipped from outside of the EU. So what we do in our union (European) is of no relevance anyway

 

[oldplumber]

Not quite sure what point your trying to make there re stuff coming from outside the eu and we can do what we like?

 

[quality]

I am not trying to make any point other than the fact that your statement about insurance was rubbish

 

[REDSAW]

they have a safty valve on them dont they?.

 

[oldplumber]

see what happens when you meet a loss adjuster. I worked on a boiler today for a retired insurance agent/loss adjuster and got onto to this question with him as it was fresh in my mind. His answer was as i said, if they can find any reason to not pay, then its in their interest to find you at fault and if you do things that are not the norm at your own risk. Only trying to help you all out so you dont come to grief, and its not in my nature to talk rubbish but to pass on the facts as I understand them, then what you do is your choice

 

[cjg]

just to be a devil,...............YouTube - Refilling a 1lb campstove propane bottle from a 20lb grill tank. hope that works!!

thought i had seen it done , we did simular with some large gas bottles,

 

[quality]

Yes that is all good and well - if anyone can find me a loss adjuster that can tell if my own refilled gas canister has caused any damage I will eat my youngest son

We experimented with flares well above the 2.5 Kg limit over 15 years ago and the worst that was caused was immediate / close by scorching - Look at a psychometric of Propane and its properties / it needs oxygen to burn , there is is only enough oxy in any house to cause a short flare the rest is burnt by the fuel

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

oh no you CAN NOT REFILL THEM,stop being tight rses and buy a new one ,anyone remember the pictures in the corgi mag when one exploded?killed the kitchen,and newly being installed duotec,set the installer on fire and burnt the nosy custard to a crisp,everyone survived but the installer had a mega £££££££££££££££ fine opf the HSE not worth the risk IMHO just buy a new one

 

[cjg]

if they wish to be TAADA then its up to them i only put the link in to be the devils advorcate,

 

[oldplumber]

Yes that is all good and well - if anyone can find me a loss adjuster that can tell if my own refilled gas canister has caused any damage I will eat my youngest son

We experimented with flares well above the 2.5 Kg limit over 15 years ago and the worst that was caused was immediate / close by scorching - Look at a psychometric of Propane and its properties / it needs oxygen to burn , there is is only enough oxy in any house to cause a short flare the rest is burnt by the fuel

ive been and seen what happens when a boatful of propane lights ups, the occupants are ejected (in flames) out of the hatch if they were lucky and those that hit the hatch inhaled the flames causing massive lung injuries, all the windows in the boat that are designed to withstand heavy seas blew out and worst of all, the rottweiller who was set light didnt want anyone onboard to help rescue the injured ,not quite sure if you understand the psychometric properties of propane!!!!

 

[GrahamM]

Just my tuppence worth.
As oldplumber has stated, these cylinders are not designed and certainly not tested to prove they are safe to be refillable.
To do so is potentially dangerous and irresponsible in my opinion.
We, or the gas qualified at least are supposed to be competent individuals.
Refilling disposable gas cylinders is not showing competence.

 

[WHPES]

The empties are of course recyclable.

 

[kirkgas]

thats all ok but remember guys these bottles have been designed for once only use and tested to that effect. if you constantly fill and empty them they are undergoing pressure changes they are not designed or tested for. long term result a van full or gas or worse still customer kitchen filled up and then emptied of propane rather too quickly. because you have used a bottle in the manner it was not designed for then your insurance wont apply. so there you are burnt like an overcooked lobster and all the new kitchen units are now in the garden and your insurance is null and void. All to save a few pence, its not worth it really is it. Remember storage bottles for gas and air etc that are multiple use are subject to annual pressure tests, rothenburger ones arent so you never know if they are safe to use a 2nd, 3rd or 4th time!!!!!!!!!!!!

oldplumber, i thought i was reading one of my own replies there, that is the way i put things across to the students, i call it "Victor Meldrew Syndrome" haha, ie assume if you must that everyone else out there is not as careful/safe/proffessional as you so when you inspect something that "Big Jimmy" did, dont assume it is perfect cause you know him and his work, assume he may have been having a off day or made a simple mistake so when you inspect his work, try to find what he did wrong (a bit pessamistic TBH, but in light of what we are all finding out there on a daily basis, Big Jimmy makes the odd error and tons of guys in our trade are doing mince work) so as in this post OK it MIGHT be ok but cannot be worth the risk of injuring yourself, someone else, your van or their property, HSE and your insurance would have a field day, c'mon guys buy the right stuff to work with, there are enough pitfalls out there

 

[kirkgas]

About 15+ years ago I install a primus filling station in milton keynes or round abouts. the only danger to refilling these canisters as they are know is not to introduce air which contains oxygen which can cause internal corrosion.
These canisters have a shelf life of 10 years which is half of their life expectancy and so long as they are not rusty or full of dents refilling them is no big issue
That rubbish about your insurance being void (it may be fact) but it is the rubbish, most folk have drove the vehicle today above the speed limit - there are police out there to catch you doing this!
There are no rothenburger refilling police

you are kinda contradicting yourself, if you adapt something for a purpose for which it isnt intended (ie refill a cylinder which is marked "DO NOT REFILL" using a built up rig with no certifcation etc for refilling which then is traced to the cause of an explosion which wrecked your van in the middle of the night or injured you at work then there is no way your insurance will pay out, ok there are no rothenberger police but it is IF something happens an investigation will prove you negligent and or criminal and subject to severs censure, as you say like everything else things get risk managed, so a sensibe guy wouldnt refill a canister that is bashed and rusty as it looks dangerous, but what if the seam is a bit dodgy after a few months of use and it refills and fails, i just dont see the risk being worth the saving, in the cheaper gas and labour to fill it, only my opinion obviously and my choice not to do, however i will be less than chuffed to be injured by someone else on the same job as me by his actions being out of my control.
as an aside to this and perhaps should start another conversation: how do you guys store gas bottles in the van? yrs ago one of our plumbers was alerted by a neighbour returing from the pub who could smell gas coming out of the back of his van, it must have been pure luck he was passing the back door of his van and could smell it, it had only been parked for about 5 mins so pure luck, what had happened was the gas bottle was rolling about the back of the van and had loosened the nozzle as it flipped over so it was releasing the gas and was lying right at the back door, dont know it it would have exploded prob wouldnt but still gave him a bit of a fright, and when he spoke about it at work the H&S guy had a fit and we had to get everyone to sort out where to store the bottles, we resolved it by telling the guys to remove the nozzle all the time, put the red dust cap back in the bottle and we screwed 2 bits of 75mm x 300mm pvc pipe to the back rack to stand the 2 bottles up in, about 4 weeks later a spot check was done and a few ofthem had went back to chucking them back into the van again

 

[kirkgas]

Thats ok I agree but we will do what we want when we need if we want
I enjoy this forum as you do I am not trying to argy bargy
but regs are there to comply with and I do comply with all, but these canisters / bottles what ever folk call them are filled and shipped from outside of the EU. So what we do in our union (European) is of no relevance anyway

i agree with what you are saying and i too dont want to argue for the sake of it and hope you dont think im having a dig in any way, i like to debate as we all do, because it is informative and helpful, most of us can talk/argue/discuss/debate as grown ups without abuse/.

 

[Puddle]

I would have thought the main safety issue really is the actual re-filling of the bottle,when you have done it a few times and become complacent and cost with deposit of larger bottle,plus the integrity of the valve on the mini bottle rather than the container it self
And as said,Why bother,usage against cost is nothing really,think if you are obsessed enough to try making these small savings, there would be many more areas better safer savings could be made if you looked about

Think more of a gimmick value,a potentially dangerous one at that

imho

 

[oldplumber]

Kirkgas and I agree, bound to happen sometime lol

 

[stevew451]

it seems a bit silly for people who are registered as GAS SAFE to be even contemplating such a dangerous act as refilling these cylinders
come on guys give your heads a shake

 

[northstar]

On the black rothenberger propane bottles their is a small hole on it does anyone know what it is for ?

 

[Spanner2k7]

Use primus gas bottles, they are refilable just take them to the merchants you got them from, took 2 back for a friend and got refils for half the price of a mapp gas cylinder, im sure you can get a adaptor to fit primus cylinders to rothenberger torches too.

 

[cjg]

On the black rothenberger propane bottles their is a small hole on it does anyone know what it is for ?

yes it has a vavle in it

 

[northstar]

cjg do you know what the valve is for ?

 

[quality]

It is for evacuating (removing) air & moisture before charging (filling)

 

[Dotty]

A good few years ago when I was younger, slimmer and fitter I used to play paintball. I remember there was a bit of excitement one day when one of the hoses on the filling station broke (home made setup!) and slapped the filling marshal around the face a few times, nearly putting his eye out.

Now that was 'only' co2 and that was hairy enough. The same thing occurring with a flammable gas shakes me to the core!

I'm all for money saving but this ain't one of them!

Recycle the old cylinder and don't be daft!

 

[Dannypipe]

Agreed you tight wads!!!

Chuck it away and buy a new one. They last ages, and if they don't then you're using em fast enough to afford a new can! No offense like!

 

[stevew451]

3 years ago in a village up hear a H&V fitter was blown up in his van popped into the paper shop on the morning for his **** got back in the van lit up and boom
The HSE got this down to a leaking gas cylinder in the van and this was a refillable one one so if it says chuck it do so

 

[Guest123]

If you buy them in bulk, they're a lot cheaper. No way would I even consider the risk in refilling one of these. If you want refills for your Rothenberger, use Calor Gas 2000 bottles, otherwise chuck the empties in your nearest recycling centre.
As tradesmen, we have a duty to ensure that the tools and equipment we use are safe, have not been dangerously modified, not just for our own safety but for the safety of all the other trades and guys we work with.
Jeeze, they say us Scots are tight fisted with our money, this takes the pee! lol

 

[fadgadget]

Jeeze, they say us Scots are tight fisted with our money, this takes the pee! lol

got to agree..... minge bags lol

 

[Rainbow74]

Get a gas vent key, take the valve out.... hey presto the bottle has now become scrap metal - and thus recycled!

 

[lame plumber]

quite an old thread now, although i do agree with old plumber and thread no longer relevant as i took all my empties fm the garage back to the merchants when the cylinder leaking was an issue

 

[REDSAW]

you would agree.lol

 

[TimeServed]

I use recyclable Sievert gas bottles (look the same as rothenburger), when empty take into merchants and get a full one for a cheaper price than you would pay for the same size "throw away" bottles. I also use a Sievert gas torch as well, so much better than the crappy Rothenburger ones which tend to fall apart after a couple of months.....

 

[TBServices]

I use recyclable Sievert gas bottles (look the same as rothenburger), when empty take into merchants and get a full one for a cheaper price than you would pay for the same size "throw away" bottles. I also use a Sievert gas torch as well, so much better than the crappy Rothenburger ones which tend to fall apart after a couple of months.....

Have you checked prices of refills lately. I was surprised to find sievert no cheaper than Roth gas

 

[Rainbow74]

mmm... looks supsiciously like the superfire3 that's in Germany!
They only fall apart when not maintained! lol :57:

 

[stevetheplumber]

there was a paint shop in finchley called bond and whites one day a guy came in and bought one of the small disposable cannister the ones the sell in b and q as he was standing there waiting for his change he decided to screw it on to the gun ,unfortunately the guy behind him was smoking all four people at the counter lost their eyebrows and lashes the fireball took the paint of the front of every paint can , the front of the shop blew into the road and destyoyed a car parked outside it looked like someone had taken an angle grinder to it so please lets not mess with gas cannisters you know it makes sense

 

[Rainbow74]

Rothenberger's have a vent key.... agreed that caution must be erred tho!

 

[lame plumber]

for all of you filling your own bottles, do pm me your details so I can make an offer on your tools if it all goes whoomp !

can I also offer you the services of these people: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=to....tripod.com%2Fjonrenau_mens_wigs.html;289;358