Discuss Can anyone tell me if this is a good plumbing job? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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Price over Pride in my humble is no excuse, otherwise it is a race to the bottom isn't it phill ?
So everyone comments, is that such a bad thing, just people expressing the standard that they would not go below, it might even highlight what the expected standards of a professional plumber should be to those who have not had the formal training of you & I.
Pride in my trade would stop me from installing that rubber & jubilee clips concoction at what ever price.
N
newcastle phill
Opinion - exactly what im expresssing
Everything comes down to price.
Which is why many wouldn't bother with some jobs.
Is this any different to the posts "is my boiler install crap" and people here say "ohh yes because it hasnt got a magnetic filter" when the punter wont pay for one....
Or the radiators are piped in plastic cos "id never lower myself to use that" when they wont pay for copper....
It all comes down to cost...
Everything comes down to price.
Which is why many wouldn't bother with some jobs.
Is this any different to the posts "is my boiler install crap" and people here say "ohh yes because it hasnt got a magnetic filter" when the punter wont pay for one....
Or the radiators are piped in plastic cos "id never lower myself to use that" when they wont pay for copper....
It all comes down to cost...
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Thanks for all your replies. I'm sure I'm asking a very common question so I appreciate your replies.
I haven't been connected to a bath/shower/basin or flushing toilet for 2 months...
Before the plumber went to screwfix - I forgot to specify black pipes - I knew he would come back with different coloured pipes....so a paint job it is.
How much would someone charge to redo all this pipework - including new soil stack? Maybe I will redo it when I win the lottery.
BTW - this is plumber no. 3.
Plumber no.1 left me - when I told him I wanted to change from paying him day rate, to a single price for the job, as he was in his 3rd week with nothing still connected. So he walked out.
Plumber no.2 was fine to begin with. Said he would charge me £500 for first and 2nd fix. A 2 day job. He said he was flexible, could work weekends to suit me....then once he started, he said the job was not as straightforward as he thought - due to non standard fittings (which he did not ask to see before he priced it).
At the end of the first day, I probably ticked him off, by asking him if he would mind moving the basin and I would pay him extra for the change. But no price agreed. He took days to get back to me. Then agreed a day, but didn't turn up (after my old mum waiting all day). Then when he turned up 3 days later - he said he wouldn't charge me for moving the basin - but then he drilled the hole in the wrong place.
When I sent him a photo of the hole in the wall not lining up with the basin waste he said it was because I hadn't provided him with a washer nut for the basin, which led to the hole being drilled wrong.
He said the only solution was to move the basin up by 20mm to match the hole. But when I checked, basin would need lifting by 70mm - making it over 95cm high.
Has anyone experienced these tactics before? When a plumber realizes he has under priced for a job, tries to get out of the job by being a total **** just so he can get sacked, and then produce a new invoice (not itemized) - and basically price for what he wants - so he doesn't lose any money out of it?
I asked him what I owe him, and to factor in his mistake which I would have to pay to get rectified. He responded by ignoring the mistake, and billed me £250 for '1 days work'. At the end of his email he says he has 'dealt with people like me before' and if I don't pay he will will 'see me in court'.
Any thoughts? :thinking2:
Plumber no. 3 is OK - just putting in some ugly, yet probably functional, pipework. He agreed to finish the job plumber no.2 left - for £380 for a final fix, and the basin/bath waste. I.e. fit the shower, basin, high level cistern and radiator. The only slightly dodgey thing - he asked me for £200 for putting in those ugly wastepipes and drilling a hole. He said he had 'cash flow problems', and he would come back later to finish the job - and wouldn't ' let me down'.
I'm sure this story is very familiar to many. What is strange is that plumber no.3 was recommended to me by my friend (who unlike me - happens to be a guy). He was asked for payment AFTER the job was finished. So maybe I just got mug written on my face? :yes:
I haven't been connected to a bath/shower/basin or flushing toilet for 2 months...
Before the plumber went to screwfix - I forgot to specify black pipes - I knew he would come back with different coloured pipes....so a paint job it is.
How much would someone charge to redo all this pipework - including new soil stack? Maybe I will redo it when I win the lottery.
BTW - this is plumber no. 3.
Plumber no.1 left me - when I told him I wanted to change from paying him day rate, to a single price for the job, as he was in his 3rd week with nothing still connected. So he walked out.
Plumber no.2 was fine to begin with. Said he would charge me £500 for first and 2nd fix. A 2 day job. He said he was flexible, could work weekends to suit me....then once he started, he said the job was not as straightforward as he thought - due to non standard fittings (which he did not ask to see before he priced it).
At the end of the first day, I probably ticked him off, by asking him if he would mind moving the basin and I would pay him extra for the change. But no price agreed. He took days to get back to me. Then agreed a day, but didn't turn up (after my old mum waiting all day). Then when he turned up 3 days later - he said he wouldn't charge me for moving the basin - but then he drilled the hole in the wrong place.
When I sent him a photo of the hole in the wall not lining up with the basin waste he said it was because I hadn't provided him with a washer nut for the basin, which led to the hole being drilled wrong.
He said the only solution was to move the basin up by 20mm to match the hole. But when I checked, basin would need lifting by 70mm - making it over 95cm high.
Has anyone experienced these tactics before? When a plumber realizes he has under priced for a job, tries to get out of the job by being a total **** just so he can get sacked, and then produce a new invoice (not itemized) - and basically price for what he wants - so he doesn't lose any money out of it?
I asked him what I owe him, and to factor in his mistake which I would have to pay to get rectified. He responded by ignoring the mistake, and billed me £250 for '1 days work'. At the end of his email he says he has 'dealt with people like me before' and if I don't pay he will will 'see me in court'.
Any thoughts? :thinking2:
Plumber no. 3 is OK - just putting in some ugly, yet probably functional, pipework. He agreed to finish the job plumber no.2 left - for £380 for a final fix, and the basin/bath waste. I.e. fit the shower, basin, high level cistern and radiator. The only slightly dodgey thing - he asked me for £200 for putting in those ugly wastepipes and drilling a hole. He said he had 'cash flow problems', and he would come back later to finish the job - and wouldn't ' let me down'.
I'm sure this story is very familiar to many. What is strange is that plumber no.3 was recommended to me by my friend (who unlike me - happens to be a guy). He was asked for payment AFTER the job was finished. So maybe I just got mug written on my face? :yes:
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Would it not have been better to have used a tee in place of the first elbow on the 40mm, add a reducing bush and then drop the 32mm straight in to it?
Feebs - I feel sorry for you. To get one iffy plumber is bad enough but to get three chumps is against the law of averages (probably)
Feebs - I feel sorry for you. To get one iffy plumber is bad enough but to get three chumps is against the law of averages (probably)
R
Radioman
I think we've all been up against a customer like Feebs. Only experience gives you the courage to not get involved from the off. But if you decide to then cover yourself with written estimates, terms and conditions, deposits and payment plans.
Feebs, my advice to you in the future, get written estimates, provide a written specification detailing the work, materials supplied and timescale, don't keep changing your mind, take references for tradesmen, don't try and get a cheap job by employing under skilled odd job men. In my experience proper tradesmen only walk off a job if they are messed around or don't get paid. Do a written job specification, Get 3 written estimates for the work from proper bathroom installation companies not odd job men, take references and actually speak to the previous customers, agree a payment plan, agree a time schedule, don't change the design half way through.
Feebs, my advice to you in the future, get written estimates, provide a written specification detailing the work, materials supplied and timescale, don't keep changing your mind, take references for tradesmen, don't try and get a cheap job by employing under skilled odd job men. In my experience proper tradesmen only walk off a job if they are messed around or don't get paid. Do a written job specification, Get 3 written estimates for the work from proper bathroom installation companies not odd job men, take references and actually speak to the previous customers, agree a payment plan, agree a time schedule, don't change the design half way through.
As above my advice would be the same, if you think the price seems expensive its most likely going to be a good job,
As for the pipe work the only fault I can see with his method is lack of clips but they could still be added but would need to stand off the wall with bits of copper and would not look the nicest but would be functional
As for the pipe work the only fault I can see with his method is lack of clips but they could still be added but would need to stand off the wall with bits of copper and would not look the nicest but would be functional
R
Radioman
Feebs something else to consider. Was any electrical work carried out in the bathroom such as shaver or toothbrush socket, new lights, electric shower? If so this work needs a certificate to be legal. Also having had a second look at the picture, is the 4 inch waste pipe connected to the rain gutter? Is this a new bathroom? Has some idiot connected a foul water outlet to a rainwater soak away?
R
Ray Stafford
I take the point that sometime price pressures force down the quality of work, but checking the colour of an existing soil stack before ordering fittings for it is just good practice. How much does it cost to ask "what colour is the existing soil?" And that double flexible connector job is not the cheapest solution.
I also take the point that if it doesn't leak, its "working".
BUT...
we also agree that word of mouth is the best form of advertising. Would you recommend this plumber? I surely wouldn't.
I also take the point that if it doesn't leak, its "working".
BUT...
we also agree that word of mouth is the best form of advertising. Would you recommend this plumber? I surely wouldn't.
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I'd say the 4" pipe steps out over the gutter with a pair of 45's and vents to atmosphere
Could well be wrong though
R
Radioman
Don't disagree with any of that Ray
BUT..... Sometimes It takes experience and a dose of courage to walk away from a job. And that's something that is learnt by experience through dealing with many many customers and situations over time. And there's always 2 sides to every situation. From the grammar in the OP I would guess there has been a comms issue between the customer and the trades. The old expectation exceeding experience conundrum. And no I would recommend the guy that did the outside work, but he was recommended and that opens another can of worms as to the recomendee's standard.
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