Are the Gas regs applied retrospectively?

[JustOldMe]

Full disclosure, I am an Electrician.

One of my older clients has just had her fire capped off because it doesn't comply with today's regs and was told the regs are now retrospectively applied.

This is the opposite of what I am used to. For example, if I do an electrical inspection and find a consumer unit with no RCD I would advise improvement, but it is not a 'fail' as it complied when it was first installed. If I change that same consumer unit it becomes a new install and I must comply with current regs.

So what is the procedure with gas installs? Is it the regs in force on the day of installation or are today's gas regs retrospectively applied to existing installs?

 

[Last Plumber]

No they aren't necessarily retrospective but if the regulations in place at the time something was installed were not adhered to, or there is a safety issue, then you would address it by using the current standards. Similar to Electrical as far as I know.

 

[oz-plumber]

We come across this stuff quite often.
First thing to do is to determine why it has been disconnected - safety issue or non compliance issue.
If it's a safety issue - fair enough.
If it's a non compliance issue - which the appliance shouldn't be disconnected.
It may not be installed to current regulations, but was installed to regulations at the time of installation.

What's the appliance and reason for disconnection?

 

[JustOldMe]

We come across this stuff quite often.
First thing to do is to determine why it has been disconnected - safety issue or non compliance issue.
If it's a safety issue - fair enough.
If it's a non compliance issue - which the appliance shouldn't be disconnected.
It may not be installed to current regulations, but was installed to regulations at the time of installation.

What's the appliance and reason for disconnection?

Thanks for the replies.

They have capped off the gas fire in her living room. They said it is still working fine and in serviceable condition but the flu is too small to comply with current regs. Hence my question, if it complied when it was installed, which it did, is it not OK to leave it running if it is operating safely?

 

[snowhead]

Have they offered any suggestions / quotes to sort out the flue?

It may just be the size of the gap at the back of the fire.

 

[JustOldMe]

Have they offered any suggestions / quotes to sort out the flue?

It may just be the size of the gap at the back of the fire.

They offered to install a new fire but not fix the old one. I am sure they are trying to make themselves work.

 

[oz-plumber]

If it isn't dangerous, I would call them back to reconnect the appliance and ask them what right do they have to cap off an appliance that is not dangerous.
And I wouldn't pay for the reconnection.

Ask them if the installation was correct at the time of the installation.

We have issues over here where people are left without heating, hot water or cooking because the install doesn't comply to current regulations, but they did when the applaince was installed.
If the appliance is operating safely, then there is no reason to disconnect it.

 

[Last Plumber]

Thanks for the replies.

They have capped off the gas fire in her living room. They said it is still working fine and in serviceable condition but the flu is too small to comply with current regs. Hence my question, if it complied when it was installed, which it did, is it not OK to leave it running if it is operating safely?

The manufacturers instructions will give flue requirements. A lot are still online if you don't have the original.
If the manufacturers installation manual says it is an acceptable size and the thing works safely when tested as per gas regulations, then yes, it would be OK to leave it on. What fire make and model? What size and type of flue/chimney?

 

[GazzaH]

Hello, if the catchment space is too small or is a letterbox opening then the flue may be easily blocked by falling debris which is a potential danger and is At Risk. The engineer should turn the appliance off from the gas supply (with the owner's permission) and attach a 'danger do not use' label and fill in a warning notice. if the owner refuses for it to be turned off then the engineer should still attach the lable and do the paperwork but should note that permission was refused to turn it off.

If the flue fails the flue flow or spillage test when the fire is on then it is Immediately Dangerous and must be capped-off from the gas supply. If the customer refuses to allow it to be capped-off then the gas energency provider should be contacted who will dig the road and cap them off in the street thus making the situation safe and charge for all the digging and refilling the hole if they still refuse.

These regulations relating to gas fire flues have not changed in 30 or 40 years. It is more likely that people haven't been reading the fire's manual to see what it says about catchment space dimensions. The installer certainly hasn't!

I have been made to do this exact exercise on every ACS gas exam I have been on. You need to measure a fireplace and chimney and read the fire instructions to see if that fire can go in that space.

The gas regulations are not usually retrospective, there are sometimes situations like gas fires in sleeping areas which has a watershed date involved depending on when the fire was fitted.

Sometimes there are very serious changes such as the flues in voids situation for condensing boilers which is retrospective and everyone including, house builders and landlords, had to alter properties to comply with the changes even though inspection hatches were not a requirement at the time the houses or building work was first done.

I'd say the fire issue you mentioned has just not been noticed before (it should have been noticed) but may only have been an At Risk situation if not currently spilling fumes or failing safety checks. In that case, the gas engineer should have advised that it needs to be turned off, not capped off, from the supply and asked permission to do so. However I have not attended the premises and I would need to see it all myself and do it all myself to be ably to classify it properly.