Am I a bad customer / job magnet

[Ermintrude]

I'm heads gone my mrs has gone mad because I didn't take a deposit she recons they won't believe me about leaving the boiler off She saying you made a mistake now you lost the money !! This customer was in contact with this family gas engineer all though the job now he's in the mix I'm at the end of my rope just so down

If family engineer is GS why didn't he do job?

Did you commission it ? No!
Did you benchmark it? No!
Did you leave an uncomissioned appliance connected to a gas supply? No

Are you in wrong ? NO!
Did you make a mistake? Yes
Are you going to correct it? Yes
Will a small claims court find in your favour? Probably yes.

We are all chipping in for your air fair to Belfast, so u can deliver a ferolli cascade And laugh at one of the sites admin - just to cheer you up.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

Thanks guys really thanks

 

[BLOD]

Put in writing (recorded mail) that you want the opportunity to rectify any problems & finish & commission the install.
If they won't let you then get that claim in ! - I can't see it going well for them in front of a magistrate.
They must give you the chance to put things right.

 

[gasmanrob]

A few points.

1. You turned it all off.
2. They say they smell fumes upstairs.
3. POC (fumes don't smell)
4. In order for someone to supposedly smell fumes the boiler would need to function, soo with no POC re entering someone has turned on and left an AR appliance or if POC are re entering someone has commissioned and left a ID situation.

my concerns would lay there for the minute rather then chasing money you'll never see.
put a report together for your records start to finish what happened what was said etc that way you have a reminder should this drag out a few months

 

[Leo21]

Tbh I get the impression the custard was going to try and avoid payment anyway.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Chin up mate we all get knocked. Earlier this year a mate got kicked off a job in a big house, two married GPs owned the place. Halfway through they got another tradesman in to look at his work so far in the evening. He said "I would have done this, I would have done that" etc. Next morning at 8am they were waiting at the front door and told my mate to pack his stuff and leave. They paid a 'contribution' towards materials.

He's still shook up about it now. Hate customers like this

 

[Ermintrude]

I hate the nobs they get round. Had a joiner telling me we had fitted 60kw. Logics on a headder wrong! Cos boilers were joined together on one pipe

 

[lame plumber]

same as any company , you put your losses against your gains. if you get knocked for 15k you can claim it against your tax

if your claiming for lost labour then youll be paying tax on that and if you put it on your balance sheet, then you'll claim it as a loss so a bit pointless for a simple tax return, best to just show the cost of parts as an expense and forget the labout side, simpler as most small enterprises dont run a balance sheet.

 

[Irish]

if your claiming for lost labour then youll be paying tax on that and if you put it on your balance sheet, then you'll claim it as a loss so a bit pointless for a simple tax return, best to just show the cost of parts as an expense and forget the labout side, simpler as most small enterprises dont run a balance sheet.

fair enough I thought that's how it worked touch wood I'll never have to experience it

 

[lame plumber]

happens to us all, just had a cheque bounce down the road to be told to squat, not worth the hassle chasing a couple of hundred so note to self to lob her cats some cyanide and laxative next time I pass and look for the next job

 

[LPC]

I'm curious as to what did you do with the flue? (that was wrong?)

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

I hate the nobs they get round. Had a joiner telling me we had fitted 60kw. Logics on a headder wrong! Cos boilers were joined together on one pipe

Its a proven fact that joiners and marble floor layers know everything about how boilers work!

 

[AWheating]

in theroy you have not even done a complete gas installation, so gas safe should have no real comments apart from let you finish it tbh.

it would be nice to think an industry body would protect its competent members when a customer is a feking idiot.

some people just need there legs snapping tbh.

 

[Ermintrude]

in theroy you have not even done a complete gas installation, so gas safe should have no real comments apart from let you finish it tbh.

it would be nice to think an industry body would protect its competent members when a customer is a feking idiot.

some people just need there legs snapping tbh.

Would be nice to think that but this is gas safe . Shall we pass a pot round or start a just giving page, GS probably get him sent down for 35 years!

 

[Whyme]

hopefully his local inspector isn't a regulation fueled pen pusher with no real tool experience.Or common sense..

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

I put the flue 690 from opening window but relized before I commissioned turned on ect but customer went mad when I explained I had to call my roofer and get more flue. There was no extra cost but she went mad

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Would be nice to think that but this is gas safe . Shall we pass a pot round or start a just giving page, GS probably get him sent down for 35 years!

that will not happen,they will invite pete to put it right

 

[Whyme]

People like that want you to
A: do the job without any dust
B:do the job without any noise
C:do the job without any hiccups
D:do the job as if you weren't even there and didn't interfere with
their important lives
E:end up doing the job for free

 

[iain85]

Sorry to hear your having a bad time. Happens to all of us bar none. It can get you down but chin up. Try to remain composed when dealing with the custards and worse case scenario write the job off as experiance (but do try and get the money back for the materials minimum).

 

[Millsy 82]

happens to us all, just had a cheque bounce down the road to be told to squat, not worth the hassle chasing a couple of hundred so note to self to lob her cats some cyanide and laxative next time I pass and look for the next job

I'd be chasing it. Not for the fact of the money (if you can afford to right it off) but purely for the principle of it. I always pay what I owe I should be payed what I'm owed!

Maybe I'm just a vindictive old git. Lol

 

[Leo21]

I put the flue 690 from opening window but relized before I commissioned turned on ect but customer went mad when I explained I had to call my roofer and get more flue. There was no extra cost but she went mad

Says it all really, they wre just waiting for an excuse. Get at it for your money.

 

[SimonG]

I'd be chasing it. Not for the fact of the money (if you can afford to right it off) but purely for the principle of it. I always pay what I owe I should be payed what I'm owed!

Maybe I'm just a vindictive old git. Lol

Spot on Millsy. Chase them till it hurts. Dont want a rep for being a soft touch. You want people saying that they couldnt believe you chased them for the last penny.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

So I got a letter from gas safe saying they are inspecting the job within the next 2 weeks. The ( customer ) has said I can't be there

 

[Ermintrude]

So I got a letter from gas safe saying they are inspecting the job within the next 2 weeks. The ( customer ) has said I can't be there

Oh dear. Sounds like they are playing you. Small claims court here we come.

Register the boiler to your address. As then they won't have warranty - also report it stolen?

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

Oh dear. Sounds like they are playing you. Small claims court here we come.

Register the boiler to your address. As then they won't have warranty - also report it stolen?

They have said they don't want my boiler once it's inspected they are getting my boiler removed and replacing it with a different one

 

[Ermintrude]

Oh dear. Sounds like they are playing you. Small claims court here we come.

Register the boiler to your address. As then they won't have warranty - also report it stolen?

If they haven't paid and are obstructing you from collecting your property .......?

 

[Millsy 82]

So I got a letter from gas safe saying they are inspecting the job within the next 2 weeks. The ( customer ) has said I can't be there

Get a letter sent ASAP to them stating that any faults found by gas safe will be rectified as soon as access is granted this will be at no extra cost. Also include the invoice for the job and state this must be paid upon completion.

If they are refusing to let you put right the work then they will be to blame you should be ok if it went to court.

It sounds to me like they are trying to frighten you into backing down. Don't do it stand strong try not to take it to heart and do it the legal way they could end up paying for 2 boilers! Lol.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

They don't even want my boiler !! They said we are having it inspected then taking it out !!!!

 

[Ermintrude]

Well inform them that if they or anyone else touches boiler they will be paying for it.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

Well inform them that if they or anyone else touches boiler they will be paying for it.

Its been in a week now no £££ what can I do they are trying to screw me aren't they

 

[Ermintrude]

They are doing exactly that . I expect the family member is sore as they didn't get job and everything you have done and supplied is worse that ****e.

Wright to them say that once it has been inspected you will remove boiler, as you don't want them to be liable for any damage, as if they intend not to pay for it it is your property and they will be guilty of wilful damage and defacement.

Personally I would get a solicitor to write a letter, it may cost you £100 but means you remove boiler and it comes out in damaged. Vindictive family member probs trash it. Also take lots of photos.

Then once you have boiler it's time for small claims court and retribution. When the flue goes through same hole in roof - the one you admitted was wrong - riddor photograph and claim!

 

[julesverne]

Get a letter sent ASAP to them stating that any faults found by gas safe will be rectified as soon as access is granted this will be at no extra cost. Also include the invoice for the job and state this must be paid upon completion.

If they are refusing to let you put right the work then they will be to blame you should be ok if it went to court.

It sounds to me like they are trying to frighten you into backing down. Don't do it stand strong try not to take it to heart and do it the legal way they could end up paying for 2 boilers! Lol.

you need to be doing this letter ASAP. get it tothe post office send it by Royal Mail Special Delivery (cost Around £6-7.00) but guaranteed delivery and can be used as evidence in court. deff keep the tracking no. receipt.

sending this letter shows to the judge in a small claims court that you have made every effort to put things right. therefore he will find in your favour should the cust who is a deff bell end wants to try and fight it in court. customers do have rights but so do you.

i also personally think that this cust has an agenda against youfrm the start. is the relative who is GSR a competitor or an employee for somebody else. might be worth trying to dig up some dirt on him if you can

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

The flue just needed 2 45 s and it would have been fine but we fitted it in the rain under pressure from these people and the roofers time ect I always treble check everything before I turn on commission ect but they went mad and told me to leave I feel really bad as less than an hour it would have been sorted. I think they had it planned and they were going to quibble not pick anyway Not happy and really lost what to do as they are blatantly just trying to get me into trouble with gas safe as they are removing my boiler the day after the inspection. !!!!

 

[julesverne]

whatever you do .

dont stick your head in sand hoping this carp will go away as it wont, take decisive action now tell them you aint gonna back down. it may take you a while to get your money back going through the court but you will get your money back . just keep your chin and dont let them get to you otherwise they have won.

 

[julesverne]

The flue just needed 2 45 s and it would have been fine but we fitted it in the rain under pressure from these people and the roofers time ect I always treble check everything before I turn on commission ect but they went mad and told me to leave I feel really bad as less than an hour it would have been sorted. I think they had it planned and they were going to quibble not pick anyway Not happy and really lost what to do as they are blatantly just trying to get me into trouble with gas safe as they are removing my boiler the day after the inspection. !!!!

this is the reason you need to get that letter in now ASAP.

it wont matter for shoot if they take the boiler out. but what does matter if your in it for the long haul of going to court is that you were prepared to put it right at your own expense. Court will side with all day long and the judge will take a very dim view if they wont let you put it right.

 

[julesverne]

just in case they are expecting your letter and they refuse to accept it. in case of this put the letter in a small box so it doesnt look like a letter. then your covering all angles

 

[Whyme]

As above absolute. And as i said earlier whether it helps you or not everything and i mean everything supplied by you on site is your property within the law until full payment for goods..court them i think youll be found in favor providing you start a paper trail registered delivery (there will be a refused to sign bit) asap.Worst case scenario, call there bluff and in writing after gas safe has been then say if their not happy you will happily pick up the boiler and all the copper etc...Don't leave them anything pal..

 

[Millsy 82]

just in case they are expecting your letter and they refuse to accept it. in case of this put the letter in a small box so it doesnt look like a letter. then your covering all angles

That's brilliant I will definately be remembering that.

 

[Millsy 82]

Its been in a week now no £££ what can I do they are trying to screw me aren't they

By the sounds of things yes from the start. By accident you gave them the reason but stick to the legal way you will come out smelling of roses they will come out out of pocket. Do you have it in writing that they want to keep certain things or was it a conversation? That proves they don't think you are completely incompetent. If you say in your letter that you accept responsibility of the flue which is incorrectly installed and that you have spoken to gas safe about it and are willing to put it right. You will take the sting out of their tail.

Stick your head in the sand you will lose everything and possibly they could go through claims to correct what you have done.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I would not worry about gas safe at all , as Tom said post 2 you left it all off !!!
However just be polite and try get money for materials and offer to hire someone who you can pay to sort it out !
Next time DO NOT take big job on your own ! Pay a experienced engineer to work with and help him out and learn from it !
Don't worry things like this happen , specially when you are not experienced enough (we all had some sort of trouble on the jobs )
I am glad you have made SAFE before you left

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

I have done much bigger jobs than this I call this ONE OF THOSE JOBS !! Started sh!7 got worse then ended sh!7 I've started my epic letter

 

[Ermintrude]

Look at it like this, you are a public service. Your taking them all for the team. Your my best friend ! U take all the 'winners' and we take the rest.

[edit - your not that good as I ended up married to my wife and not .......]

 

[Millsy 82]

I have done much bigger jobs than this I call this ONE OF THOSE JOBS !! Started sh!7 got worse then ended sh!7 I've started my epic letter

Don't make it epic make it simple

Dear so and so

Please find enclosed invoice for works carried out in your property, I understand that it is not carried out to your satisfaction or up to current regulations as I instructed you and informed you I would correct free of charge, I would like to complete the job so it is to current regulations as soon as access is allowed. Failure to either pay or either allow myself to correct the mistake will result in court action.
I would like from this point forward for all correspondence between us to be in writing as i feel that the trust between us has broken down.

This is off the top of my head so don't quote me but make sure every thing is in writing the courts won't like he said/ she said. Make sure you send everything by recorded mail and have copies.

Stick to it you might have 1 customer slating you but you will get your money in the end.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Absolutely agree with Millsy.

Keep detailed notes for your own use, but keep the letter to the customer very short, polite but firm.

 

[village idiot]

I have done much bigger jobs than this I call this ONE OF THOSE JOBS !! Started sh!7 got worse then ended sh!7 I've started my epic letter

PJ, it is sad that what happened happened. But sheet happens. We all wish that this matter will be resolved and hope you will at least get money for your materials that you used on the job, and a bit for your labour.

But before you go head in, I will just like you to please look at the bigger picture.
If you start writing to the customer now and making them aware you are going to take legal action etc, my gut feelings tells me that this may just spur them on and make them even more angry? Try and put yourself in their position (someone has already pointed this to you in an earlier post). You decided that their boiler needed changing, removed old boiler, fitted new one and radiators on one floor work but not on the other? You have a pin hole leak on a 28mm pipework? You fit the flue then tell them it is wrongly fitted and has to be altered? You switch off the new boiler (and leave them I presume over the weekend with no heating or hot water)? Anyone who has a bit of an idea will try to turn on the boiler to at least have a shower. Yes, you might have told them not to touch it, but people always do.

Just let's say they left the boiler on all weekend and products of combustion etc got in and someone got ill or worse. What do you think the outcome would have been?

We all agree the customer is trying to get away with not paying you and also wants to keep some of your pipework, flashings, etc which is rather strange. How come they think it is done right?
Personally, I will suggest you put a line under it. Consider it a very bad experience and move on. The more you dwell on this, the more you get distracted from other work you should be doing and the more you get bugged down with it.

So you will prefer to go and remove your boiler, but they may also be of the opinion that if they let you access to the property, you may decide to damage the pipework etc that you had fitted. Especially considering they have informed you they intend to keep it and not pay for it?

By all means, send them your letter(s), but be polite and apologetic. Tell them you admit things did not go to plan but things of this nature do happen once in a while (remember all those millions spent on an NHS computer system that eventually got scrapped???). Tell them you are more than happy to attend and complete the job at no extra cost to them. Inform them that you will gladly reduce your labour charge due to the inconvenience they have ''suffered''. Finish by letting them know that if they have decided not to let you complete the installation, then you will be happy to come and remove your materials etc. Present yourself in a genuine and caring manner.

I am not so sure that takin this matter to court or threatening them with legal action will achieve anything. JUST MY VIEW.

Take the loss on the chin, liken it to a bad investment in the stock market or similar, and forget about it.
WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST IN WHAT EVER ACTION YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW.

 

[P J F PLUMBING]

So shal I wait until the inspection has been done ?? They are taking out my boiler after it !! What shall I do ?

 

[Leo21]

So shal I wait until the inspection has been done ?? They are taking out my boiler after it !! What shall I do ?

Personally I'd get it in ASAP, apologising and offering to rectify at no extra cost. If you don't do it before the boilers removed I don't think you'll have a leg yuk stand on.

 

[Dotty]

So shal I wait until the inspection has been done ?? They are taking out my boiler after it !! What shall I do ?

My view is you should invoice them for everything, including the boiler.

Commissioned or not it has been installed and, as such, is now a second hand appliance which you cannot install anywhere else.

If they refuse then insist on removing it tell them you'll be doing it yourself. The slightest scratch they put on your property constitutes criminal damage.

Carpé Jugulum............

 

[village idiot]

I am afraid because Gas Safe has been notified, you have to wait for them to visit an write out their report.
Be the bigger man in all this. Clear your head and concentrate on other jobs (and your family, tell your wife you realise she was right in her analysis and inform her you will make sure it never happens again).
After the gas safe inspection and report, their letter to you will advice the rectifictions you need to make - I have attended quite a few properties where the owners have had disputes with engineer and Gas Safe has attended and ask engineer to rectify by a certain date - in all the cases I know, the owner has opted not to have the engineer back.
Now, once you receive the report from Gas Safe, everything will now go official full scale. Write to customer indicating that you have received report and want to come and make good the ''defects''. Chances are by the time you send them their letter, their relative who is gas safe would already have taken out your boiler and fitted the replacement. So they may already be asking you to come and collect your boiler. But the important thing is that you would have fulfilled your obligation as you have written to them requesting to attend and rectify findings by Gas Safe Inspector. If they choose not to have you back then, YOUR JOB IS DONE AND YOUR BACK SIDE COMPLETELY COVERED. Go there, pick up your now second hand boiler and think of how you can make use of it somehow.

Yes, you have been SCAMMED, but remember this, people get scammed every day, OAP's even intelligent and smart alecs. I know a professor who was scammed out of millions in fake investments. So as I said in a previous post, call it a bad investment, hold your head high and move on. It will hurt for a few weeks or more, but before long, you will look back and laugh at the experience.
GOOD LUCK.

 

[Millsy 82]

I am afraid because Gas Safe has been notified, you have to wait for them to visit an write out their report.
Be the bigger man in all this. Clear your head and concentrate on other jobs (and your family, tell your wife you realise she was right in her analysis and inform her you will make sure it never happens again).
After the gas safe inspection and report, their letter to you will advice the rectifictions you need to make - I have attended quite a few properties where the owners have had disputes with engineer and Gas Safe has attended and ask engineer to rectify by a certain date - in all the cases I know, the owner has opted not to have the engineer back.
Now, once you receive the report from Gas Safe, everything will now go official full scale. Write to customer indicating that you have received report and want to come and make good the ''defects''. Chances are by the time you send them their letter, their relative who is gas safe would already have taken out your boiler and fitted the replacement. So they may already be asking you to come and collect your boiler. But the important thing is that you would have fulfilled your obligation as you have written to them requesting to attend and rectify findings by Gas Safe Inspector. If they choose not to have you back then, YOUR JOB IS DONE AND YOUR BACK SIDE COMPLETELY COVERED. Go there, pick up your now second hand boiler and think of how you can make use of it somehow.

Yes, you have been SCAMMED, but remember this, people get scammed every day, OAP's even intelligent and smart alecs. I know a professor who was scammed out of millions in fake investments. So as I said in a previous post, call it a bad investment, hold your head high and move on. It will hurt for a few weeks or more, but before long, you will look back and laugh at the experience.
GOOD LUCK.

I could not disagree more. Get everything ready before gas safe go. Once they have been you don't want to be fighting it on two fronts. As soon as gas safe see that you have admitted the mistake and offered to rectify free of charge in writing they will leave you be as it's down to the customer then as she is refusing gas safe won't take it any further.

After gas safe have been then they will wasn't to know how you are going to rectify it and once the boiler has been removed then you can't.

He has been scammed yes. It can happen to anyone but the difference is you can do something about this and it is not too hard to sort. But letting them run Scott free is just stupid! If it was for a small amount of money then it's not worth it but a boiler and a 28mm gas run is a lot of money and then there is the labour!