Advice Please - Disconnected toilet, what 15mm cap end do i need?

[bilabonic]

Hi All

What 15mm cap end do i need to cap off this service inlet, plus is there any way to replace it with an isolator type even though there is no height.............

Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Undo the nut and olive from below and use the cap with a fibre washer eg copper fibre washer brass cap

Doesn’t look like you have enough room to replace for an iso

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/compression-stop-ends-15mm-2-pack/65021

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/fibre-rubber-washers-210-pcs/70837

 

[bilabonic]

So i have to remove the existing nut an olive (stuck on)....It's only for a temp isolation.


Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So i have to remove the existing nut an olive (stuck on)***.It's only for a temp isolation.


Thanks

no take the cap end nut and olive off and just use the brass cap with the existing tap connector (the part you have) with a fibre washer sandwiched in between both

 

[bilabonic]

no take the cap end nut and olive off and just use the brass cap with the existing tap connector (the part you have) with a fibre washer sandwiched in between both

Ah right, thanks.

 

[Aquarius]

That in the photo just looks like a nut and olive?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That in the photo just looks like a nut and olive?

Yorkshire tap connector

 

[bilabonic]

Yorkshire tap connector

Yep that's what it is.

Think i may just cut into the 15mm that runs horizontally below and use x3 compression fittings.

A coupler each end and a tee to fit a flexible tap connector with built in isolator.

What do you reckon?

 

[gmartine]

Messy.

I think a flat faced isolation valve would work? You'd need a fibre washer too, go to a plumbers merch as I don't think they'd stock them at the usual sheds

BES.co.uk | Next Day Delivery On 15,000 + Plumbing Supplies

Order isolation valves and other brassware online at BES.co.uk. Low Prices, Free Next Day Delivery Available, 15k Plus Products in stock. P/N: 23573

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[Johnyc86]

Hi All

What 15mm cap end do i need to cap off this service inlet, plus is there any way to replace it with an isolator type even though there is no height.************

Thanks

View attachment 61484View attachment 61485

You can get a swivel elbow with a service valve built in to it

 

[bilabonic]

I have only removed the toilet as both HW taps are not working (basin and bath).

I have removed the valves but don't think they do replacements as they are ancient, plus one is stuck inside the tap itself! They have not been used for years.

The basin should not be too bad to replace (flexi tails/new taps) but the cast bath is a nightmare!
Plus it has what i think is old 3/4" pipe (are they 3/4 to 22 adapters in pic?).

I did not take pics of the bath valve insert (the one where the end is stuck in the tap!!

I'm having an absolute NIGHTMARE tbh, only want to get HW going for a several weeks until a new bathroom refit.

Not sure if i should start another thread?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tap reaseater and a new washer and you will be good

 

[bilabonic]

Tap reaseater and a new washer and you will be good

What the heck is that? I've been googling for ages and can't find anything that looks like what i want, plus i think i would have to remove the bath tap as the 'seal' is stuck in there, i tried pulling the little nipple and it snapped.
Banged hell out the tap and tried all sorts to try to get it out.

 

[bilabonic]

Ah right, it basically grinds the bottom of the tap, like doing valves on a car back in the day....

I still require new valves for the basin and bath taps though, presuming i can remove the back tap and hit it out from 'behind'.

 

[Basher]

Ah right, it basically grinds the bottom of the tap, like doing valves on a car back in the day.***

I still require new valves for the basin and bath taps though, presuming i can remove the back tap and hit it out from 'behind'.

You surely don't need new 'valves', just rubber washers, or at worst the complete jumper and washer (See link). These old taps were made to be 'maintained', not usually have the whole valve assembly replaced.
Even re-seating them might not be needed as you're saying you will replace them in a month or so (Subject to the valve seat not being badly damaged). You could check a new washer works OK before buying a re-seating tool.

13mm - 1/2" Flat Tap Washer c/w Brass Jumper Holdtite L10AFJB50

13mm - 1 2 Flat Tap Washer c w Brass Jumper Holdtite L10AFJB50 1 2 jumper valve measures 18 87mm We carry a large range of Bathroom Spares in stock

www.bathroomspareparts.co.uk

As far as the broken/jammed jumper is concerned, yes you can probably punch it out from underneath, and replace the it with the appropriate size, hopefully:

19mm - 3/4" Flat Tap Washer c/w Brass Jumper Holdtite L10AFJB75

19mm - 3 4 Flat Tap Washer c w Brass Jumper Holdtite L10AFJB75 3 4 jumper measures 25 17mm We carry a large range of Bathroom Spares in stock and can

www.bathroomspareparts.co.uk

 

[bilabonic]

You surely don't need new 'valves', just rubber washers, or at worst the complete jumper and washer (See link). These old taps were made to be 'maintained', not usually have the whole valve assembly replaced.
Even re-seating them might not be needed as you're saying you will replace them in a month or so (Subject to the valve seat not being badly damaged). You could check a new washer works OK before buying a re-seating tool.

13mm - 1/2" Flat Tap Washer c/w Brass Jumper Holdtite L10AFJB50

13mm - 1 2 Flat Tap Washer c w Brass Jumper Holdtite L10AFJB50 1 2 jumper valve measures 18 87mm We carry a large range of Bathroom Spares in stock

www.bathroomspareparts.co.uk

As far as the broken/jammed jumper is concerned, yes you can probably punch it out from underneath, and replace the it with the appropriate size, hopefully:

19mm - 3/4" Flat Tap Washer c/w Brass Jumper Holdtite L10AFJB75

19mm - 3 4 Flat Tap Washer c w Brass Jumper Holdtite L10AFJB75 3 4 jumper measures 25 17mm We carry a large range of Bathroom Spares in stock and can

www.bathroomspareparts.co.uk

Wow, never heard of 'jumpers' before, there's also another o ring that sits in place before the cartridge is in place but i have a set of them....

What i don't understand is why these 'jumpers' are not directly connected so that when you unscrew the valve they do not lift? Newer ones are attached by a screw beneath.

So basically as you unscrew/open the valve you are relying on HW pressure to 'lift' it.

I still have an old system with a cold water tank and the pressure is not the best o presume (cylinder downstairs/tank approx 6ft above taps).

Am i correct in my thinking here?

I just can't comprehend why they don't manually lift when i open the taps......

Where is the logic behind that?

Thanks for advice, THIS i think could be my answer!

Cheers

 

[Basher]

So basically as you unscrew/open the valve you are relying on HW pressure to 'lift' it.

yes
a few feet of head is plenty to let water through!

"there's also another o ring that sits in place before the cartridge is in place"
The one below where you are holding it - yes, that is (or was) a fibre washer, not a rubber O-ring.
Replace it with a washer of the appropriate size, though it might "work" even as it is!

"tank approx 6ft above taps)."
6ft is approx 0.2bar, so you will need low pressure taps to replace them. Assuming that is the distance from the water surface in the cold tank to the taps?

 

[bilabonic]

Little update, isolated the fill to cylinder and replaced both tap head inserts on both bath (3/4) and basin (1/2).
They are operating but i'm only getting a little spurt of water, then it just constantly send out little tiny/weak spurts and dribbles.
The HW is off atm, does the cylinder need to get up to heat to provide more pressure as there is hardly anything there, the upstairs tank is full so should be forcing water through it??

 

[Basher]

Little update, isolated the fill to cylinder and replaced both tap head inserts on both bath (3/4) and basin (1/2).
They are operating but i'm only getting a little spurt of water, then it just constantly send out little tiny/weak spurts and dribbles.
The HW is off atm, does the cylinder need to get up to heat to provide more pressure as there is hardly anything there, the upstairs tank is full so should be forcing water through it??

If by 'isolated the fill' you mean a valve is still closed between the upstairs tank and the input to the cylinder, you need to open it to get water to come out!
The water doesn't need to be hot, it should flow irrespective of temperature.
Is the cold OK?

 

[Ric2013]

If the washers are old, they will stick in place. New washers should lift easily and not stick - unless you've made them wider than the jumpers (wrong size - can you trim them down?) and are fouling the bore of the tap.

Possibly the jumpers were deliberately loose to act as a primative anti-vacuum backflow mechanism, or they have simply worn and were originally captive. Sometimes hot taps had captive jumpers and cold taps had loose jumpers for this reason, assuming cold was mains pressure.

I'd be inclined to stick those taps on ebay once you've got them working. You may not get much for them, but you never know, and it might just make someone happy.

 

[bilabonic]

The taps are now working fine, jump jumpers/seals.

I am only getting a slow trickle on the HW upstairs, downstairs is kitchen sink tap/flow is fine (bigger head height)

The head height from bath/basin upstairs to tank (not even in the attack/ 3/4 way up in a cupboard) is only 6ft if that tbh.

No valves are off, it's just the upstairs taps had seized as in pics due to no use for probably years....

When i open a either tap it gives a good 'spurt' then goes to a pathetic trickle.

I was thinking an airlock and was going to try old trick of pumping mains from mains CW from basin into gravity HW on the basin but it will not fit over tap ends.

 

[Ric2013]

If an airlock, the old hose trick should work even if you don't have a good seal. You can use tape or even just your hands as a seal.

But first I'd try to run the tap with the mechanism removed entirely, just to rule out issues with the tap itself. 6' head should give a reasonable flow with those taps, even if it will never be amazing.

With a tap OPEN, you could also try a hose from the ballcock in your cylinder feed cistern to the cistern outlet. Being careful not to overpressurise the cylinder.

 

[bilabonic]

Yes, i tried that, i removed the cartridges/jumpers completely and it was still a trickle.

I know the main tank has run CW tank/cistern has run empty, i looked into several weeks ago when i viewed the property, it was barely on the feed line so mains water had been off foe so long.

I have just been given a length of 15mm ID koi aquarium hose from a neighbour with should fit snugly between the basin taps.

What is the process when i attach it?

Fully open the HW tap, then slowly open the CW mains tap? How long do i run it for??
I presume until it feeds all the way back down to downstairs cylinder then back into cistern?

Shall i get a friend with me to watch the cistern for air bubbles/water level even though there's an overflow in it.

Thanks for replying.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

10-20 seconds then pull the hose off the hot tap with it fully open

 

[bilabonic]

I was just thinking with regards this old type floating valve insert, when i open the hw tap, unless the valve 'lifts' a little then pumping mains into it will most probably cause it to close shut?

The tap end /spout leads to the closed side of the valve unless it's lifted, it is not manually lifted via rotating the threaded internal screw (opening tap).

This type of tap does not allow 'backflow', it's like a check valve/one direction!

Trying to put mains into it is pointless surely....

 

[bilabonic]

Am i correct here guys, the CW mains will just close the HW tap insert/lifter, surely i will need to remove the inset/lifter for it too work?

Anyone confirm please??

Thanks

 

[Ric2013]

Am i correct here guys, the CW mains will just close the HW tap insert/lifter, surely i will need to remove the inset/lifter for it too work?

Anyone confirm please??

Thanks

You're right!

 

[Basher]

Am i correct here guys, the CW mains will just close the HW tap insert/lifter, surely i will need to remove the inset/lifter for it too work?

Anyone confirm please??

Thanks

Yes, I think you are right. Could get messy!

 

[Ric2013]

Yes, I think you are right. Could get messy!

I think, if he removes the jumper and gets the flow going, he can then dismantle and reassemble correctly with the system 'live'. A 6ft head is not going to be that difficult to control even with a tap dissassembled.

 

[bilabonic]

There is an old gate type isolator near the HW tap, i'm hoping i can remove insert and reassemble, get flow going hopefully, isolate, then reassemble, reopen valve.
Otherwise it will be messy. lol

Cheers guys.

 

[exedon2]

Could always 'fix' the jumper did hundreds as a apprentice!
Two hammers end of jumper rested on one hit end of jumper with other hammer turn it slightly oval will hold it up stem of tap.

 

[bilabonic]

Why would i want to damage the jumper to keep it open?
It's easier to simply remove it surely?

Anyway guys little update, i did not have to do anything to the system? The pressure was fine??

The only thing i did do yesterday before i left was put the HW/boiler on constant.....

Has the expanding water simply increased the pressure? Or has the presumed airlock simply freed itself??

Anyone got any views on this? I will turn it off tomorrow and test it again the following day.

Cheers

 

[Ric2013]

Could always 'fix' the jumper did hundreds as a apprentice!
Two hammers end of jumper rested on one hit end of jumper with other hammer turn it slightly oval will hold it up stem of tap.

Seeing as the OP didn't like the loose jumper, this was good advice. The OP didn't appreciate it, but I think you were helpful, thanks.

 

[bilabonic]

Seeing as the OP didn't like the loose jumper, this was good advice. The OP didn't appreciate it, but I think you were helpful, thank

Could always 'fix' the jumper did hundreds as a apprentice!
Two hammers end of jumper rested on one hit end of jumper with other hammer turn it slightly oval will hold it up stem of tap.

Ah, sorry i was confused by your response tbh, so by hammering/flattening the the 'pins' on the jumpers, then placing them forcefully back in the threaded part it was cause them to effectively jam and lift up and down when screwed.
Great idea tbh, sorry i misunderstood.

Plus MANY thanks to everyone who helped with the problem, great advice as usual and it IS much appreciated!!!!